Keeping Sand Dry

[Lloyd_E]

This will a spring project. How would you tackle the job of keeping sand dry. I use it on our lane in the winter. I have a section of a building that I can wall and add a door. It would be
8'wx12'Lx8' tall - would need to deal with ground as well.. Would have to stock it as not to put pressure on the walls. We have a pile now but of course it is frozen solid even with a couple of tarps. Would mixing salt with it help? If so what percentage.

Thanks - Lloyd

 

[sdkubota]

Mixing salt will keep it from freezing although I am not sure of the ratio needed. The other problem is sand can retain a lot of moisture even if stored inside. You could dry it in the sun sometime and then move it indoors. You do not want any sand against a building because the pressure will eventually cause some serious problems. The State highway departments around here stockpile sand/salt piles outside and use them during the winter.

 

[MossRoad]

A long, long time ago I worked for a mason. We used sand in the morar mix. Freezing is a big problem. If we had to work in freezing temps, we'd lay a 2" metal culvert pipe on the ground and have the sand delivered and dumped over the culvert blocking one end. Next, we'd lay an insulating blanket over the pile. Finally, we'd point a salamander type heater into the culvert and turn it on to keep the pile from freezing.

The real problem is this... the sand on the ground insulates the ground and draws up moisture from the ground into the sand.... then it freezes starting from the outside in where it contacts air. If you can keep the room it is in above freezing, you shouldn't have a problem. However, if it is in an unheated room that is kept below freezing, you probably will have a problem.

In large sand storage buildings like the county highway garage, the sand around here usually only freezes in a foot or so and the large front end loaders don't have a problem busting it up. You may have to resort to sledge hammer, or wait until spring depending how cold and moist it gets in your storage room.

 

[MossRoad]

One note about salt. Salt does not evaporate. It stays in the soil and only leaves by being washed away with water. If you mix sand with salt and store it on the ground, that ground will most likely be forever contaminated with salt. Salt also affects concrete and rebar. You really shouldn't store salt directly on a concrete slab inside a building. It may take years, but it will have an effect. At least put some thick plastic barrier down over concrete for temporary salt storage with a lip or dam around the edges in case moisture gets in and tries to leave in a trickle. Also, salt absorbs water if left open to the air. I have a plastic barrel with about 6 inches of salt in it and no lid in my garage. It magically gets a couple of inches of water in it every winter. I use the salt water with some vinegar for weed deterrent on my fence row and driveway cracks where I don't want anything to ever grow ever never. :thumbsup:

 

[Lloyd_E]

Thanks sd and moss,

My thinking is to lay down crushed rock, vapour barrier and a wood plank floor for the storage area.
The edge of the pile will just barely touch the walls - note#1

I had thought about laying out a black tarp and drying sand on it before putting it in the storage area - labourious but hopefully it will work.

Moss, do you think the salt sand mix over the wood floor would work? I guess another layer of vapour barrier on the floor before stock piling wouldn't hurt either.

Unfortunately the room cannot be heated.

Thanks.

 

[sdkubota]

Just heard on the radio the State uses a 10% salt mixture ratio. They purchase salt by the semi load.

 

[mjarrels]

I store mine in 55 gal. drums with a lid. Easy to move with a FEL.

mark

 

[dave1949]

Don't know how much sand you typically use, but I bought 100 of those woven poly bags used to make flood dikes, then filled them with dry sand, no salt. I store them inside.

Our towns sand+salt pile is outdoors. They use a full size backhoe or front end loader to break it up and load the plow trucks. I'm not sure how well my tractor would get into that pile once it is frozen. Probably not too well.

 

[MossRoad]

I wouldn't put any salt in the sand. It won't keep it from freezing and will make a salty mess at the bottom of the pile if it does get wet. I would add the salt to the sand right before you spread it.

 

[boggen]

if ya goto some local nursery were they sell dirt, sand, rock, but the truck load. take a look at there setups, most places around me, all have cut back into a hill side, and then built 3 walls, 1 wall acting liking a retaining wall, that is up against the cut out hillside, then 2 other walls that are sides.

this gives you something to run your FEL along on the sides, and then you can take run tractor right into the rear, (not slamming into the rear wall) but up to it, and curl the bucket to get the sand.

that 40 to 45 HP tractor you have, will more than likely tear anything else up in a heart beat. or less ya bomb sheltered the walls.....

you can normally pickup some cheap "ties" kinda rough timbers and may look like rail road ties, but are not black. if i bid my time, i can normally get seconds for 1/2 off price or more. granted the seconds look like crud. but after a few winters hitting rear wall and scrapping along the sides with tractor, ya not going to have a perfect good looking wall.

4x6 or 6x6 ties. get yourself a couple auger drill bits for a drill (if ya get one drill bit, it is bound to bust off in a hole). and then "spikes" *duh* forget size, about a foot long 1/2" in diameter. a chain saw works nicely in cutting things down, trying to get ends perfectly square, *shrugs* you won't be able to notice ya got things square after a couple years. a small little sledge hammer say 2 to 5lbs, with a short handle. tends to work better for me to drive the spikes after pre-drilling....

==========
getting that rear wall so you can slide your FEL bucket into the area for a bucket full of sand, and/or bust the chunks up, can make life easier.

if ya do not want to fight with the tarps. just put a cheap plastic corrogated roof over the area. (3 walls, 1 roof) and leave the one side open, so you can make sure you can get in there with tractor.

make sure ya get good drainage of water out of the area. both gutters, and just sloping the ground around the area down and away from this sand pile area.

a concrete slab is going to make things cleaner, vs ending up with chunks of dirt and sand.