KAMA 354C Hydraulic Levels

[MrFixit]

My dealer just delivered my KAMA 354C an hour ago. After he left I found a puddle of Hydraulic Fluid. It is parked on a very slight incline (Front Up). The Vented cap has a 3" dipstick with only only one visible marking about 1/3" from the bottom. I can't find any level recommendations in the manual but the reservoir if full to the very top and oozing out the vents. I have a Koyker Loader and Pirannha grapple which "may" require a bit more fluid to extend all cylinders. If I drain 1/2 inch out will that cause any low fluid conditions when loader is raised tilted down and grapple closed?

Does anybody know what the proper level of fluid should be for a loader and grapple setup or do I just keep it above the Low Marking when all cylinders are retracted?

Thanks!

Tim

 

[greg_g]

Coincidentally, an almost identical discussion is open at CTOA. Click HERE .

//greg//

 

[MrFixit]

Thanks Greg,

I removed about 1/4" of fluid from the reservior as it was at the very top and overflowing with cylinders retracted. So far I have avoided extending all cylinders as I have a Koyker 160 loader with the 2" cylinders and the grapple has dual cylinders. The dealer may have "Overfilled" the reservoir intentionally as this setup may need a lot of juice to function.

The CTOA post seems very similar. hopefully somebody with a similar seup as mine will reply.

Tim

 

[bluechip]

Tim,
If the grapple is plumbed to the power beyond, and return line is run to what was the drain plug for the hyd. box on right rear, nothing you will do will stop the oil from leaking out the vents. when the loader is lowered, oil rushes into the lift box with a lot of force, bounces off the far wall of the lift box and diverts right onto the bottom of the fill. For this reason we don't use the power beyond on this model. (power behond would be if ahose is attached to the very top of the joystick.)

 

[MrFixit]

Thanks Chip

I did not get a JoyStick, I got a 3 spool valve (3 seperate levers). It sat powered off for about a half hour, then I saw the puddle and checked the reservoir. The reservoir was full to the top and overflowing

Tim

 

[RonMar]

When it was last shut down, was the FEL still in the air? If the FEL was lowered without the engine running, this could be why the resovoir is overfilled. With the hyd pump providing pressure/flow, the flow in and out of the resovoir is about the same regardless of what hydraulic operation is being performed. The only difference is the ammount of fluid displaced by the rods in the cylinders. If the FEL was lowered without the engine running, gravity forced the fluid in the non-rod end of the cylinders back to the resovoir. While the FEL is descending, the rod end of the cylinders will try and draw fluid into themselvs like a syringe. Unfortunatly if there is any kind of leakage between the resovoir and the cylinder, they will suck air instead of drawing fluid from the resovoir. It is much easier to suck air in through a leak, than fluid through the line, particularly if it still has the thick Chinese motor oil in the hydraulic system. Once there is air in the system, those bubbles will also expand in a vacume without drawing fluid from the resovoir. This can easilly result in a resovoir overflow.

I would suggest that you go over all the hyd fittings in the system with a wrench to make sure they are tight. My 284 was delivered with the suction fitting at the resovoir loose so it was sucking air while it ran, making the hydraulics a little "jumpy" due to the steady stream of bubbles in the system. Air bubbles in the system also cause cavitation in the pump which is hard on it.

After everything is tight, Start up the tractor and cycle all cylinders several times in several positions. Try to cycle the dump and grappel cylinders with the rods pointed both up and down to purge as much air from the system as possible. Allow them to set at their limits for a little bit between cycles to allow any air bubbles to migrate to the top near the fitting so they will be the first out and be pushed all the way back through the hoses and spool valve and on to the resovoir. After this put the FEL back solidly on the ground, then shut the engine off and go check the resovoir level. You might be pleassantly surprised If it is still full after that, I would say the dealer overfilled it. The level should be in the vicinity of that mark on the dipstick. If you are worried about overflowing while cycling the system, connect a hose to the vent pipe and run it into a container to catch any potential overflow.

I wasn't real pleased having the vent on the filler cap on my 284. It placed the actual vent point at the bottom of the threaded cap on the dipstick(down inside the resovoir). Being all the way back in the resovoir, this sometimes causes a small overflow when cycling the hydraulics while the front of the tractor is elevated, such as dumping a load on top of a brush/burn pile. I drilled and tapped a 1/4 NPT hole in the top of the resovoir up between the forward seat mounts. This is about the highest point in the resovoir and nearly in the middle. I threaded a hose barb into this hole and run a hose to a filter with dessicant in it up on the seat back. I do this to keep dirt out of the system and to keep the air dry and cut down on condensation that will contaminate the oil. I converted the filler cap into a hydraulic return port with quick connect fitting pointing toward the rear.

 

[3RRL]

Ron,
If you get a chance, post some pictures of what you did there. It would really helfp to see it.
Thanks,

 

[MrFixit]

Thanks Ron,

My dealer told me to lower the FEL before shutting off and then he actually lowered the FEL after it was shut off! Big mess.

I cleaned up his mess and came back a half hour later and had another mess even though the thing was powered down the whole time. Shortly after I cleaned it up and went to park it in the garage. The hydraulics took about 2 minutes to start functioning. This seems to be a result of the air leaks you are describing. I will change all fluids this weekend and tighten everything up. Thanks for the very informative suggestions. I bet you're right, this is exactly why it seemed overfull.

Tim

 

[RonMar]

A good thing to check while you have the hyd resovoir empty is the condition of the hydraulic strainer on the suction line. New systems always have crud in them so after it has been run for a while that debris makes it's way to the strainer or the metal shavings settle out on the bottom of the resovoir. Mine actually had a small hole in the brass screen when delivered and I have heard of others having the same problem.

 

[bluechip]

If you must lower your loader with the engine off, and your loader has a float position (on a koyker it is with the joystick all the way up/forward) this allows the oil to flow from one side of the cylinder back to the other and won't make such a mess.

 

[Dave_Lilly]

I have owned a KAMA 354 with an Accutech FEL since last March. My experience has been that if the FEL or the 3 point hitch is lowered with the engine off that hydraulic fluid will overflow the reservoirs. As long as I lower the FEL or the 3 point hitch with the engine running I do not have a problem. I can only guess that this is caused by the internal plumbing of the hydraulics.
Best of luck with your KAMA.

 

[RonMar]

Rob
Here is a pic of what I did with the vent on my 284. I just realized in that last post where I described it, that I said I put the new vent between the forward seat mounts when I actually put it between the REAR seat mounts /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif. I drilled a hole till it just broke thru into the top of the resovoir then tapped it to 1/4" NPT. This is about the highest point on the resovoir and several inches forward and above the original vent location on the filler plug. I have tested it by cycling the loader with the front of the tractor well up on a bank(higher than I have ever had it in normal operations). I was unable to get any fluid to come out the new vent location.

I had been working on a different filter arrangement so I finished and installed it this evening before I took the pic. I used to have the filter on the back of the seat with a hose connecting the filter to the vent. Now this home made filter/dehydrator screws right into the new vent location. It consists of a Napa 23001 fuel filter($1.89) with the carbburetor end hose barb removed and a 1/4" NPT nylon fitting($.98) glued in it's place. The other end is filled with small bead silica gel indicating dessicant. It is dark indigo blue when dry and as it absorbs moisture from the air being drawn through it, it turns pink(blue is new, pink is poo). On the upper hose barb is a long 1/4" rubber vacume line cap(few cents at Napa) with a few small holes drilled in it to pass air but keep debris from falling directly down the hose barb and into the filter. The filter material keeps the beads of silica gel from entering the resovoir. This should keep the air in the resovoir dry and cut down on internal condensation that will contaminate the hydraulic oil. The dessicant can be revived by shaking it out of the filter and cooking the moisture out of it in the microwave(can't nuke the whole assembly as the internal filter element has metal end caps).

I cut the square cap off the top of the original vent/filler cap and unscrewed the dipstick from the inside. I cut a 3" long 1/2" pipe nipple at a 45 degree angle then welded it to form a short 90 degree elbow. I cut the threads off one end and welded it where the square top used to be on the original filler cap. I made it a little too long as right now I can't unscrew it with the male QC installed without hitting the bracket that holds the toplink storage hook(to be fixed soon). I am giving up the dipstick with this mod but I can easilly see the fluid level down that large hole when the cap is unscrewed.

This was the easiest way I could figure to install a hydraulic return without doing too many major mods to the case/resovoir. This mod is paveing the way for a portable/temporary return line filter package that I am putting together. It will connect to the "dump trailer" hydraulic supply QC and this return QC fitting so I can filter the hydraulic fluid down to 10 microns whenever I am not using the 3PH.

 

[3RRL]

Ron,
Thanks for the photo. That sure is a good idea.