Just bought a G174 with a couple questions

ToughAsStihl · Mar 4, 2008

I just bought my first tractor. I bought it to help out with sugaring and I needed something smaller to fit in the trees but I still wanted a loader. So $5400 later I have a G174, 48in rear snowblower, 48in brush hog, 36in roto tiller, 48in harrow, 48in york rake, 72in rear blade and some sort of cultivator. I got it home and to be honest I was a little disapointed. It doesnt have any hydraulic power. I cant drive the bucket part way into a snowbank and curl the bucket. Its not even a full bucket load and it wont curl or lift. Is this normal? I also cant fully curl the bucket and have the loader go down (after dumping a load) at the same time, I have to do either one or the other at each time. Is that normal? Is it also possible to put a single stick instead of the dual stick for the loader control? My other problem if floatation, it has these really skinny tires that break through the snow and though it powers through it eventually gets stuck after too much snow accumulates on the lower parts. Is it possible to put wider tires on it? Would I also have to get wider wheels? Also, I'm a tall guy, about 6'3" and I have a tough time on such a small tractor. Has anyone moved the seat back? Its as far back as it can go from the factory but I was thinking about fabricating something so it can go back farther, but just looking for ideas on how to do that.

Thanks

ToughAsStihl · Mar 5, 2008

14 views and nobody can help me?

Mundy · Mar 5, 2008

Is your loader powered by the tractors pump or by a pump ofthe front shaft of the motor. The tractors pump is most likely only 3 or 4 GPM. Thats not much output when filling cylinders on a loader.

As for your seat I have simular issues with my Satoh. I bought a replacement seat that sits me up higher and also modified the mount to allow more rear travel. The thing that limits your rear travel will be your top link when you raise an attachment. Make sure you check if the toplink will hit your seat when you raise the 3 point.

Tires, Is your machine Front Wheel Assist?
If it is you have to match tire Dia to keep the gearing proper for the FWA. You should be able to put wider tires on your rims but there is a point when you will need wider rims to go wider on tires.
If you are 2WD then you can change at will as long as your rims will handle them.

Hope this helps some

ToughAsStihl · Mar 5, 2008

Thanks Mundy. The loader is powered by the tractors pump and not the front PTO. Is there a way to put a bigger pump on? Is it possible to make the engine have more power? Like a better intake or larger exhaust, like on a diesel truck even though its not turbo?(I'm a newb so if these are stupid questions just ignore it) Yes its 4wd, but I wasnt planning on changing diameter, just width. Or am I going to have to go a little bigger to get more width?

Mundy · Mar 5, 2008

With your tractor being 4 wheel drive you should not go bigger dia. If you have to go bigger dia you must increase the front and rear to maintain the same aspect ratio between the front and rear. This can get confusing as 2 inches bigger in the rear does not mean 2 inches bigger in the front. So it is best to keep the same dia front and rear as you have.

If you need more HP I would just buy a bigger tractor. I have seen some people do turbos and such but I question how many hours it will last. With proper gear selection I have never not had enough power from the motor.

I do wish the HYD pump had more flow to power the loader faster. I am looking into a pump mounted off the front crank pully. The pump on my tractor puts out 3.8 GPM at 2700RPM. At 2700RPM the loader is still pretty slow but better. With it reved up like that the problem is shifting and remembering to idle down so as to not smoke the clutch.
I am hoping to place an 11GPM pump dedicated to the loader. That should speed things up I think.

ToughAsStihl · Mar 5, 2008

Is 2700rpm higher then what I have? I dont have a tach, so I dont know what mine runs at when its on full throttle, but is it somewhere around 2700 or did you adjust yours for higher RPM? What would you suggest for a wider tire? You wouldnt happen to know the rear tire size off hand. I know the front is 6X12 but I dont know what the rear is and its out in the dark but I'm trying to find some tires online. I'd be interested in information about the front mount pump. I dont want to get a bigger tractor because this is a great size to fit in the trees for sugaring. But I'd like better floatation in the mud and snow, and a faster more powerful loader.

lens12 · Mar 5, 2008

High idle is 2750 for a G174. It won't be turning that speed when it is working. I would drain the trans oil & check the pickup screen for dirt & water. I'd also check what it has for trans oil. There is disagreement on whether it should have 80w-90 gear oil or universal hydraulic/transmission fluid. In cold temperatures, gear oil is going to be slow. I'd also check the hydraulic pressure to see if the pump is warn. A 25% larger pump can probably replace the original pump. I don't know if I'd recommend turf tires. you would loose traction. Duals might work better.

ToughAsStihl · Mar 5, 2008

How do I check the hydraulic pressure? Duals would widen the tractor too much. Since you would have the space between the tires plus the extra tire width. It needs to be able to make it through some tight trees, but good idea. If the pump does need replaced what should I replace it with? I'm very mechanical when it comes to cars, (I've rebuilt my Toyota Landcruiser from the ground up) but the whole diesel and hydraulic system is totally new to me. So any help is greatly appreciated.

Mundy · Mar 6, 2008

Do you have manuals for your tractor? If not I would sugest buying them. Both repair and owners manual.
My manuals have been worth their weight in gold. Many if not all of your questions would have been answered with manuals.
Lens12 can most likely help you out in that area along with parts.

Good luck

Got any pictures? I would like to see your tractor.

RobertBrown · Mar 6, 2008

You should be able to determine the GPM requirement for that loader, and now that you know what the pump puts out, that will tell you if your short. I'm thinkin it's never gonna be real fast or strong, you've got a smal tractor with a small, 2 cyclinder, 19 hp diesel engine. I have the same tractor in 2wd. I consdered a loader but figured I could shovel about that fast and didn't spend the money.
Before you consider changing out engine parts you might want to determine parts availibilty and cost. You might keep all those attachments and sell the G194 .....with the loader before..... something breaks.
It could be worse.
Sorry but that's my advice.
Good luck

Mundy · Mar 6, 2008

Robert Brown,
How do you go about determining the GPM requirements of the loader? Is there a formula for that? Or are you talking about referring to a manual for the loader?

ToughAsStihl · Mar 6, 2008

Prince PTO Tractor Pump 11.4 GPM, Model# HC-PTO-2A | Pumps | Northern Tool + Equipment
Mundy is this the type pump you were talking about for mounting on the front PTO shaft?

On the flip side, I found a larger tractor that I'm interested in. So I'm curious how much you guys think my tractor is worth.

Heres what the Craigslist ad from the seller I bought it from said.

Bolens-Iseki 17hp 4WD diesel G174 with front loader runs well. Exact year of manufacture unknown -- not listed on data plate -- probably around 1976. No time meter, probably around 1000 hours total; I have had it for 15 years. Rear 3point hitch with PTO, front PTO. Has some parts for belly-mount mower. New ag tires in 2002 have less than 100 hours. Some of the hydraulic lines may need replacing soon. Repair manual and extra fuel filter. I used it to clear several acres of rough brush and trees, and the field is a real field now. Although it has been kept outside, I have always had the engine covered, and I have always removed the battery and kept it inside when not in use. Battery is an Interstate that I bought last year; batteries have lasted me 7 years each time.

I'd say its in good shape. Theres some minor surface rust on some spots, but what would you expect from an older tractor? It starts right up and doesnt smoke, shifts really smoothly and everything seems to work properly.

Heres the only picture I have of it right now.

elalexander · Mar 7, 2008

Hi Tough, sorry your havin some problems. I have a G194, 1982 model with 1220 hours. Leonard, Lens12 is the man for parts, questions etc on Bolens Iseki's from what I have seen on this sight. I've attached a few pics of my tractor just so you can compare tires etc. The straight tread on mine, front end, came that way from the factory and my machine is 4WD.

As for the loader, I stumbled on this thread because I'm thinking of buying a new tractor but really all I need is a FEL and I had hoped to ask Leonard what he recommended etc. I can't trailer my machine to Indiana to his shop. (The better have says loader OK, new tractor ...we need to talk). Anyway, hyd fluid will and does break down over time. I know guys who have machines that loaders, 3PT. Hitch etc run fine on xyz hyd. oil. But put in ABC brand hyd. oil and nothing works. Spend the few bucks and drain and refill the hyd. oil. And as someone mentioned earlier, clean the screens, filters etc. For peace of mind I can't believe someone would put up with a very slow loader for 15 years.

Mundy · Mar 7, 2008

That PTO pump wouldwork but I am looking at something less expensive. Being front mounted I will use a shaft driven pump with a plate and adaptor shaft connecting to a PTO. The pump I have would cost about $125 to $140 from surplus center .com. My current issue to work out is Hydraulic tank. I want to use the sump that currently feeds the existing pump but it is proving to be a challenge. I may end up with a slim tank mounted to one of the loader uprights.

What color are the stickers on the side of your hood? I believe that will help date your tractor. I think red is 1978 and green is 1979 to 1981 or 82.

Around here $3500-$4000 would be high end for your tractor loader in Good+ conditions. Its hard to tell from the photo but from that photo I would rate it Fair to Good.

Put it on Ebay and see what it goes for. Tractors this size seem to do pretty well on Ebay.

lens12 · Mar 7, 2008

"I had hoped to ask Leonard what he recommended etc. "
I have a used loader off of a G194 that I can ship to anyone interested.

ToughAsStihl · Mar 7, 2008

So how do I go about draining and replacing the hydraulic oil? I plan on doing a full fluid change tomorrow. So hydraulic, tranny and engine oil. I got a manual with the tractor but I dont know if its a service manual its not with me right now and I wont have it until tomorrow. So I'm just looking for how to do it and where the fill and drain plugs are. Also which fluid is recommended. I've read to use 90 weight oil or to use hydraulic oil, which is best? What and how much do I have to buy?

Thanks

RobertBrown · Mar 8, 2008

Tough
Your tractor uses hydraulic oil and gear oil. the gear oil goes in the transmission and the hydraulic oil goes in the hyd resevoir under the seat. Also look under the hood and on the bottom of the hood there should be some useful information regarding capacities and specs. Use a hyd oil equal or better than the John Deere spec(303). Most oils reference this right on the container. You will see the fill hole on the top of the resevoir under the seat. I can't remember where the drain is and it's raining here now and I'm not going to look, maybe tomorrow. Remember if you have bad oil or water in it, that stuff is going to be in the pump and hoses and isn't going to jump out of there for you so it's going to take a few drainandfills to get her fresh filled and any air purged out. You should see some improvement if there is going to be any.
You may want to look into a dirt scoop if you haven't already.
Below is a link to a manual on sale at ebay for about 10 bucks. It's on a CD. There are some available in print as well.
If you think you want to keep that thing your going to need all the info you can get.
I have a G192 and it's a well built, strong little tractor that has served me quite well. I have know doubts about the quality of an Iseki but I've bought a larger more servicable tractor which I believe will have lower operating costs over the long term.
Before you make any more purchases regarding this type of equipment i sugest you fill out your user profile and discuss your exact needs with the people using this website. You will find there are people here who have dealt with issues similar to yours and can help you make an educated decision about your next purchase.
I hope this helps because I have been helped several times by the users here and It would be nice to "give a little back".
Best of luck with you new/used machine
RB

BOLENS- ISEKI DIESEL SERVICE / PARTS MANUAL - eBay (item 350033284298 end time Mar-10-08 11:46:28 PDT)

Mundy · Mar 8, 2008

Tough,
Look in a manual to determine if you have a common trans Hydraulic system or seperate like Robert Brown says. I do not think the 174 and 194 are the same.
My nieghbor has a 154 which I am pretty sure is the same as your 174 but with a smaller motor. I think his trans is the hydraulic sump. I don't know for sure but that is what I remember.
As Len said to thick of fluid or a pluged screen would really slow things down.

ToughAsStihl · Mar 8, 2008

Sounds great. I'm about to head out to the shop and get started on a fluids change. Where should I get the oils? Theres a very large dealership that I've done a lot of other business with but they're a Kubota dealer. Will they still have the oils I need? I know there arent any Iseki dealers anymore but is there another brands dealership I can get parts through?

Mundy · Mar 8, 2008

Tractor Supply is where I get my oils. I have heard Wal Mart also. The Kubota dealer may be more expensive I don't know. Hydraulic would be something like JD 303 or Universal Tractor fluid. For gear oil 80-90W and winter engine oil I use Rotella synthetic 5W40.