Just another service manual rant

   / Just another service manual rant #1  

Harry in Ky

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
1,614
Location
Winchester Ky
Tractor
Allis Chalmers ED 40
As I understand it, the Bobcat tractor is actually a Kioti in Bobcat colors. I can't help wondering if the service manuals Bobcat provides are of their own design, or are they merely a reprint of what Kioti supplies to them along with tractor components?

I'm currently looking through the Bobcat manual on the CT445 tractor. I find it to be as close to useless as it could get. It's nothing more than a big picture book. Just page after page with pictures of various parts, and instructions to remove this bolt, that snap ring, a roll (or clevis) pin, and remove XXXX part. Assemble in reverse order. That's pretty much all there is. Not one bit of text to describe any of the inner workings of the tractor, the various parts, how they interact, how anything operates, or any truly useful information. I found it very disappointing to say the least.

I wonder if the Kioti manuals are any different or are they basically the same thing? Those of you with Kioti manuals for your tractors --- Do any of them provide anything more than that?
 
   / Just another service manual rant #2  
Do you know what Kioti model does the CT445 equates too? I may have the service manual for the Kioti variant in my computer. Last time I checked, they explained how stuff worked and what did what. Not in absolute detail but perfectly good enough to understand and see exactly what they meant.

EDIT: Here is an example from the CK XX30 series:

1679320357053.png
 
   / Just another service manual rant
  • Thread Starter
#3  
No, I'm not sure what (if any) Kioti tractor models would be a match. Maybe someone out there can add that.

The Bobcat manual has NOTHING like what you posted. The hydrostat in the 445 is a bit different than what your photos show. On this one the shaft that the control linkage connects to isn't as simple as what's in the photo. It's a flat sided round shaft, but it connects to a piston of some sort inside the hydrostat unit. This piston sits vertically inside a chamber in the case casting. Inside of that is a control valve spool, possibly that is actuated by the shaft movement, not really sure about that yet. I get the impression that the movement of the swash plate is controlled hydraulically, not simply by rotating one shaft.

Interestingly enough, this is the portion I'm interested in. It appears that on this machine the control mechanism is somehow stuck (most likely in forward) and doesn't move back to neutral or reverse. This manual explains absolutely nothing about what's in there or how it should work. From the pictures it shows, I assume at this point the tractor will need to be split and the hydrostat removed in order to access said piston/valve assembly.
 
   / Just another service manual rant
  • Thread Starter
#4  
I think a DK45SE may be pretty similar. I found a few Kioti parts sites, but for some reason I can't find a breakdown on a hydrostatic transmission on any of them. Tractor Data says it was offered with a hydrostat but none of the parts lists I see acknowledge that.

Do you have any information on that?
 
   / Just another service manual rant
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Yes, that looks like the same diagram that's in the Bobcat manual, and the same as what shows up in the CT445 parts breakdown. My problem is I don't have any information concerning the "how and why" operation of this unit. That was why we ordered the manual to begin with. Maybe the DK45 manual would have been a better choice.
 
   / Just another service manual rant #7  
Yes, that looks like the same diagram that's in the Bobcat manual, and the same as what shows up in the CT445 parts breakdown. My problem is I don't have any information concerning the "how and why" operation of this unit. That was why we ordered the manual to begin with. Maybe the DK45 manual would have been a better choice.
Here is the service manual for the DK XX SE series, including the DK45SE. It's a big file so it may take a while to load.

 
   / Just another service manual rant
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Thank you very much. THAT is a manual, nothing like the lame excuse for one that Bobcat supplies.
 
   / Just another service manual rant #9  
There's a big difference between an operators manual you will get with a tractor and an actual workshop manual. In my opinion they are worth the investment, which is often significant. For example my F800 workshop manual(s) shipped in a box that weighed 41# and being that it's 27 years old I think I've used about 37# of those manuals so far :ROFLMAO:
 
   / Just another service manual rant
  • Thread Starter
#10  
The Bobcat manual I refer to is not an operators manual. It's a three inch thick stack of pages filled with reprinted photos depicting various stages of disassembly procedures. It contains no information on anything related to how those parts work and interact. Basically worthless to anyone wishing to learn or understand what goes on inside.
 
 
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