John Deere 165 - Starter won't engage - Any ideas?

[Yourkie]

My 165 Deere engine intermittently does not want to turn over. It seems possibly due to something like brake safety switch. The brake pedal needs to be depressed to start. This sounds like a stupid question but where is the brake safety switch actually located? Do any other interlocks commonly go bad. I'd like to operate it manually or temporarily bypass? I couldn't find it on the JD parts schematic (neither could dealer). I've got health and back issues going right now that keeps me from being as agile as I was 10 years ago or I probably would not ask. Do I need to pull the deck for access? It's been a great mower and I've used it mostly for trimming & bagging for a number of years. Thanks in advance.

I noticed my bill of sale for it in 1986 cost $2650+ with bagger. Serial number is in the 370000 series (under 420000) which means it is an 86. That was a lot of money for a 12.5 hp 38" deck mower in 86.

 

[beenthere]

Possibly needs a new battery?

32 years, for a cost of under $100 a year, doesn't owe you a thing. But if me, I'd get it to the Deere mechanic and have them check it out.

I hear ya on the "hard to get around like we used to" problem, but still good to "be around".

 

[jgayman]

Does it click and try to turn over when you turn the key or does it do nothing (i.e. no clicking or starter movement)?

If you have a set of battery jumper cables you can use one of the leads to connect the positive battery post to the large post on the side of the starter. If it turns over then you know the problem is the ignition switch or one of the interlocks.

Do you have a voltmeter that you can use to check the battery? You want to record the battery voltage when it is just sitting there and then record the voltage as you are trying to start it.

 

[Yourkie]

Beenthere...thanks for reply. The battery is good. I'm just trying to take the easy way out and save my back if someone knows exactly where the brake interlock is located (right or left,in frame etc) so I can find and test it. It seems like it must be an interlock problem. The engine wont respond and turn over intermittently to the start position. Sometimes it works fine for a a couple weeks. It would cost more to take to dealer than it is worth.

You're right it has been a good little tractor that easily climbs hills and bags grass etc much easier than the newer L&T models. Never a tranny problem either. Never could get the left wheel off it and had to replace tire on tractor. The bagger on these is easy to put on and take off unlike the new PITA baggers. Over the 32 years I've replaced stuff like starter and did a valve job etc but it keeps on chugging.

 

[beenthere]

The engine wont respond and turn over intermittently to the start position.

Could you elaborate a bit on what this means? confusing to me. tks

 

[Yourkie]

jgayman... Thanks for the reply. It would be fairly easy to troubleshoot if I was fully mobile. Starter does nothing when I turn the key but other times OK. My gut is thinking it is the brake safety switch because it will sometimes start working if I manipulate or push brake pedal with different pressures. Sometimes it will work fine for a period of time. I was hoping a Deere tech or owner familiar w 165 could give me a hint to the configuration and location. I know that sounds kind of stupid question for a little tractor.

Battery voltage seems good sitting at about 12.4 although haven't yet measured under load if and when starter engages. I get no clicking of solenoid or starter movement when it isn't working. I think it is likely interlock. The parts and harness breakout from Deere isn't that good on this older model. Does Deere now use a different version of the parts catalog that is not as informative as in past? Maybe I'll get a buddy or neighbor over here to help.

 

[Yourkie]

Could you elaborate a bit on what this means? confusing to me. tks

Yes confusing to me too ;-) When I turn ignition key to start and press brake pedal sometimes engine will turn over and will start, and other times nothing. By nothing I mean starter does not turn it over. Sometimes (not always) if I manipulate brake pedal pressure or pump harder on pedal it it will start. I'm thinking the interlock switch is either defective or not adjusted properly. I will admit my first problem is finding the actual brake interlock switch. I know it shouldn't be difficult on a small tractor.

My neighbor was just looking under it too and neither of us could find anything mounted on under carriage from the transmission forward that looked like it was an interlock switch for brakes with wires. Thanks again for the replies.

 

[Kish318420]

There is no brake switch on the 165 only seat and neutral safety switches, there is also a separate starter relay on the model, should be located close to starter. So from what it is sounding like is an electrical problem. Check the auto reset circuit breaker, this model had the push on connections known for losing connection from age/corrosion (replace with eyelets style and nuts). Then check safety switches, finally starter relay (plug in style relay) should be down by starter on engine. Finally key switch should be checked. Also check battery connections and the battery it self should be checked and tested (load and recharge).

 

[tomplum]

It sure can be a variety of things on these. I tend to see PTO switches or connections on the rear a fair amount that don't complete the safety circuit. In general clean terminals on what you can find at everything you can find. Manipulating the connectors with someone holding the key when it should crank may find it faster.

 

[Yourkie]

Thanks kish and all.

No brake safety switch seems to agree with what I can see. Yet I wonder how the brake pedal that must be depressed to allow the starter to be activated, like the seat switch operates. I would also assume the neutral safety switch is located on the hydro, yet I do not see wiring going to the hydro.

Thanks. That was an excellent tip on the external starter "slave" relay. I don't think I have one, but in researching I find that it was added to some Deere lawn tractors including 165 as AM107421 called a starting improvement relay kit to allow the starter solenoid to actuate properly. This failure to start has been a relatively sporadic issue on this 32yo tractor. The relay modification is available various places from 35 to 45 dollars. I'll let you know how it turns out.