JD4100 vs Kioti CK20

[rico304]

Which is a better machine for heavy home use. Mosty tilling, bush hog, york rake, FEL, landscape type work? Both look good, JD is a little more expensive. I think this comparison is apples to apples.. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Thanks

 

[Dargo]

Back when I was clearing my property, digging my basement, and building a lake, I absolutely abused the living snot out of my JD and I never had a single problem. I don't think I ever got on the seat a single time and didn't work it well past it's rated limits. I had a great dealer and got a great price, but I honestly never needed his service department. I only used the parts department for fluids, and filters. I'm embarrassed that I flogged that thing so hard, but it never once broke, left me stranded, or didn't continue to impress me. I've never owned a Kioti, but I couldn't break my JD tractors. It's hard for me not to recommend one.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I don't own either brand, and I have a bad taste in my mouth about JD only because of my local dealership. But I got to play on a larger model recently and now the JDs really Really REALLY impress me. That said, I went back and looked at all of them when the dealer had a big event with mowers, tractors and free food recently. Now I also looked at the CK20 and generally really like it. In fact it is a very strong little machine with lots of features.

I did a search over the past several months of the JD forums for issues on the 4100, 4110 and 4115 and the CK20 and found something pretty interesting. The CK20s have lots of reported problems but all seem very minor, and customers seem to love them anyway. Interesting thing, I found no owner problems at all posting in the past 3 months with the 4100. Overall, given the large number of JDs sold and the relatively small number of Kiotis sold, you would have suspected that statistically the JDs would have a high rate of problems simply because there a more JDs out there. Didn't seem to be true; in fact JDs of this size class actually had a very low rate of problems reported here on TBN.

Now all this is being said by a guy with a Kubota, a Ventrac, a New Holland and a Cub Cadet, but no JD tractor and no Kioti, so it is just my observations.

 

[viking65]

Shame on you Bob Skurka. Your post is blatant Kioti bashing. It's all lies! You should be tied to a post and flogged by Kioti John and all the Kioti fanatics. How dare you mention anything that could be the least bit Kioti negative. You don't have a right to mention anything positive or negative about Kioti because you don't own one. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Hey all I did was observe, read and post. Anyone can do that. Now I still say I like the CK20, I looked over one at it appears to be a nice machine, the specs are very good. But if you read the posts there are lots of little problems posted in the Kioti forum about almost all the models, and many seem to be very minor, a few seem to be design issues, many seem to be dealer issues. Some of these are new models, they have some refinement that needs to be done, but overall, the feeling about the brand is positive.

I also know that I really dislike the local JD dealer, but the more I get to see and play with the brand the more the JD tractors impress me. I'm really looking forward to getting on a 3xxx series tractor and operating it. I got to see some, but no opportunity to work it. Those are some nice machines. The JDs have really improved their ergonomics over the last few years. And given that they sell 25% of all the small tractors in the marketplace, you should expect to hear that they would have 25% of all the complaints on TBN. It just doesn't seem to be the case. So I'd say that Dargo's experience with his 4100, where he beat the living heck out of it and it worked is probably a "normal" experience for JD owners.

Now if someone wants to beat me with a wet noodle for these observations, then so be it.

 

[Ledgemere Farm]

I will admit that I am 100% biased, but JD has a much, much larger dealer and parts network. In 58 years of dairy farming, my family has had 14 John Deeres. Our local dealer and JD have really stood behind their product and impressed the heck out of me.
Had you asked me about a pre-1984 International Harvester or a John Deere, my response might be a little bit different.
I am sure Kioti makes a good machine, but when you have something you are happy with, you tend to stick with it.
Good luck.

 

[gippolit]

Hey all I did was observe, read and post. Anyone can do that. Now I still say I like the CK20, I looked over one at it appears to be a nice machine, the specs are very good. But if you read the posts there are lots of little problems posted in the Kioti forum about almost all the models, and many seem to be very minor, a few seem to be design issues, many seem to be dealer issues. Some of these are new models, they have some refinement that needs to be done, but overall, the feeling about the brand is positive.




Bob,
All the Kiotis have issues? Please show me! I read the Kioti forums all the time. I really don't know what your talking about. I can point out alot of Kubota minor and major issues. Also JD issues. What do you have against Kioti? Did you ever drive one? I own one and wouldn't consider anyother tractor brand under 65hp. Over that I would purchase a JD. Comparing apples to apples the Kioti will give you more bang for your buck.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Glen, the HST has been questioned numerous times on the CK20 and CK30, in the case of the CK20 there were some real issues. In the case of the CK30, I think most were operator errors. Numerous small issues with sticking pedals, etc. There are several loader issues with the DKs including roll back and broken/bent parts, roll back is a design issue. The broken/bends seems to be related to small pins that fall out, now it could be a user issue there with users not checking every pin every time they use the loader. Backhoe issues seem to be common with 1) fast bleed down of the stabilizers, 2) stabilizers hitting the main arm when raised, 3) loose frames, bolts that come loose in the frames, etc. Now it can be debated as to who is at fault, in each of these, in many cases it goes to the dealer.

Sorry if the observation offended you, it was not my intent, it is an observation that can be confirmed if you go back and look over the forum, and even look back deeper before Kioti had its own forum. I like the Kiotis, I have been pretty consistent in recommending the CK20 to people when it fits. I considred buying a DK Kioti (in Cub Cadet coloring - same tractor different paint) but ended up not taking back the 32 acre farm that we lease to a farmer so I didn't need the bigger machine. Glen the one thing you will find as you read my posts is that I am not blinded by any brand. I am very critical of some of the Kubotas, and I own one. I generally like the NH machines but admit their prices are often too high on some of the models. There are some JD tractors I simply do not like because I think they are antiquated and the newer designs offer superior performance. I think the Mahindras are good tractors but question their choice in dealerships.

As for your comment about the Kioti giving more bang for the buck, that is also up for some serious debate, while I think in many areas they are generally lower priced than some other brands, there have been numerous posts where 21hp CK20s have been priced HIGHER than 21 and even 24hp Kubotas. And prior to the NH price increases, the CK20 postings were priced right along with my 24hp TC24. Now I admit I got a great price on the TC24, it even beat Kubotas price when I priced them.

But the fact of the matter is I have nothing against any brand, but I will be objective in my analysis with any brand.

 

[gippolit]

Bob,
Frist there is one loader issue that Kioti has resolved. HST problems I've never heard of. Mine works great.

I think your talking about the HST issues posted the other day with a ck20. Thats user error not a HST problem. I can point the same isssues with JD, Kubota etc... And you can't compare any 21hp bota to the ck20. The bota's are like my sears lawn mower not a tractor. Infact I had my local dealer drop off a b7800 for a day with loader and hoe. The tractor was to light for the hoe. I ended up with a kioti.

 

[gippolit]

Bob,
I can point out many Kubota and JD bleed down hoe issues. Once again what is you point?