JD 445 - Dead

[Rob_H]

I have a JD445 that I was mowing some rough stuff with last week - wetlands that only get dry enough to mow about this time of year - so the grass was 3-4 feet tall, swamp iris, cat tails etc. I've done this many times before, and the 445 handles it well considering I should be using a rotary cutter.

The mower does bog down from time to time, and I stall it occasionally. Last week it had stalled three or four times in an hour's worth of work, and started just fine after each stall. The last time it stalled and wouldn't start - the fuel pump clicks, and the starter won't engage - just kind of whines.

I thought I had over-stressed the battery, so I put a full charge in it, but it still won't turn over. Any ideas?

Oh yeah - it's one of the last 445's made, produced in 2001 so it has a metal cam, also has the hydraulics and sub frame for a model 40 loader. 430 hours total, and this work is the toughest it ever sees.

Thanks!

Rob in MA

 

[AKfish]

Maybe all that jouncin' and bouncin' thru that 3'-4' high thick grass loosened up your battery connections and the starter is not getting full voltage.

I'd look at the starter and battery connections.

As well, when you stall the tractor, do you have to clean out the mower deck before you attempt to start the engine? I'd guess that there must be a wad of heavy material that has balled up the blades and chute, etc?

My $0.02.

AKfish

 

[Dutch445]

would you say that the starter is spinning when you turn
the key? and not engaging the flywheel?
you may have a bad starter solenoid that
isn't throwing the starter gear into the flywheel..

of course, verify voltage, etc..

 

[AKfish]

Good thing to check (selenoid) out, too! That crossed my mind but I figured they go bad over time and 'cause you grief by intermittenly working and then not...

 

[swines]

First check the battery voltage with a meter. If it's under 11.6 volts you won't turn the starter. If it is low voltage, I can give you some ideas on why the battery is being drained. If the voltage is not low, then you need to troubleshoot the starter system.

 

[Superduper]

First check the battery voltage with a meter. If it's under 11.6 volts you won't turn the starter. If it is low voltage, I can give you some ideas on why the battery is being drained. If the voltage is not low, then you need to troubleshoot the starter system.

I'd go further by saying that at rest, the battery voltage should be a minimum of 12 volts (or more after a full charge). Any battery that does not register full voltage without a load is a partially dead battery. Then test the voltage during engine crank. If it falls below 9.6 volts at any time during the crank step, the battery should be charged prior to testing. If the battery is already charged, either the battery is bad or your starter is drawing an excessive amount of current (shorted). If this is an original battery (2001), then the life of the battery is highly suspect and you've likely got more than your money's worth from this battery already.

If the voltage remains above 9.6 volts during the start process but still fails to spin the engine, then other issues are involved which may be as simple as battery cables and/or connections or they may involve starter motor, starter solenoid and/or relay. Additionally, I should say that when testing for battery voltage, the probes should be at the battery terminals and not at the clamps or cables. The reason is that if there is a bad connection between battery and clamps, it would give a false reading of battery voltage. Finally, if you are getting different voltage readings across the battery terminals as opposed to between the battery clamps, especially when starting, it is a sure indicator that there is corrosion or oxidation between battery terminals and clamps.

 

[Rob_H]

Thanks all;

AKFish - yes I do have to clean the mower out. Typically it starts to vibrate when there is too much material balled up in it - I drop the PTO and back up some, then re-start the PTO. If there's still too much material, this is when the tractor stalls.

I've checked the battery connections, and they are OK. There was some corrosion on the + that I cleaned off. I haven't checked the battery voltage, but immediately after a full charge, the behavior was the same. The battery was replaced when I got the tractor in late 2004 - so 2+ years old.

The starter does not engage or spin, and the engine is not turning over. What confuses me is that it was absolutely fine until it did this. I had spent the morning mowing the main part of the yard, using the loader to turn over the compost pile etc., and then decided to see if I could mow the wetlands. The tractor had been started probably 10+ times during the day, and started fine - no weak turn over, no clicking sounds etc., then it simply wouldn't start. That's what makes me think it isn't the battery, but something else failed - the solenoid is a good candidate.

I'll start there and see what happens.

Cheers!

Rob

 

[Dutch445]

Rob,
the stalling under the heavy load, and the no start
are probably not related.

What you are hearing is more than likely the fuel
pump which comes on with the ignition key to charge
the fuel system.

If you aren't getting any starter activity, I would recommend
looking into the safety switches. You could have a
bad seat switch, bad break switch, or bad pto switch for
starters. some of those are more easily bypassed to
test than others. But, a few quick pushes on the
brake pedal may get that switch to energize, and
a jumper wire at the seat switch would bypass that if
you wanted to try to narrow down things.
I don't know if the "RIO" switch would be a problem
in the starter circuit, but somebody else may offer up
that info for sure.

another possible problem, and a little more expensive,
is the small circuit board on the RH side of the console, behind
the radiator area. It has red and green lights, and several
relays in it that can fail. Mine failed and my PTO wouldn't come
on intermittently, and I traced it to that relay by tapping in that
area and click, on the light came... so once i replaced that board
things have been fine since. My tractor is up to 850 hrs, and is
much older,, so I'm not thinking this is your problem.



good luck

 

[swines]

A fully charged 12-volt battery should show nominally 13.6 volts.

That's why measuring the battery voltage is critical. As stated in an earlier post, 12 volts will get you by to start it after draw down by the starter. But, that's why I stated that at 11.6 volts you won't turn the starter.

Charging the battery does not prove the battery is at the required nominal voltage. Let me give you an example. I have been having a problem with my GT275 lawn tractor not starting.

After charging the battery, I measured 12.4 volts. But, after one hour, the voltage had dropped to 10.2 volts. Additional charging on different types of chargers (including an Interacter that will normally resucitate a dead battery) did not solve the problem. Obviously, I have an internal short (partially collapsed plate - whatever) and the battery needs to be replaced.

So, as a first step - I proved that at the very least, I had a battery problem that needed to be solved before I could go any further in troubleshooting. (I could have had a perfect battery, which, at that point would lead me to other areas of the electrical system.)

But, my real problem was to find out why the battery died in the first place.

After sleuthing around the electrical system with my meter, I discovered a constant .15 volt drain on the positive side - and worse, continuity through the positive battery cable (positive circuit) to ground (negative battery cable) with the key switch "Off" and the battery out of the tractor.

A little more work (sequentially pulling apart connectors associated with the positive circuit) and I discovered it had to do with the key switch circuit.

A little more work (removing the switch) and I discovered that the switch was mounted to a PC board. The board was covered in a light film of grease with dirt all over it. The grease had been evaporated from grease that JD had put on the PC board connectors for water proofing. I live in a high heat area - so if they didn't use a high heat dielectric grease - I'm not surprised.

The dirt (dust) on the grease provided just enough electrical conduction through the traces and components on the PC board to slowly discharge the battery over a period of time. The partial charging of the battery during use and then more discharge, apparently ruined the battery over a period of about 18 months.

I cleaned the PC board with electronic contact cleaner, cleaned up the connectors, used a temperature-rated dielectric grease for waterproofing, and then sprayed the board with a clear, PC board encapsulating spray.

When I replaced the switch and checked the circuit, there was no more continuity to ground, and when a 12 volt source was connected in series through the meter with the battery cable - no more stray voltage drain was apparent.

I'm sure I've solved my problem - but, the troubleshooting process all started by looking at the battery voltage after charging, and then again after a period of time being off the charger to see if the battery would stay charged.

This may not be your problem, or even related to your problem - but, you have to verify the battery is good to start with as that is the cornerstone of the entire electrical system.

While trouble shooting is a PITA, you have to approach it like Sherlock Holmes - eliminate the obvious and whatever is left is the problem.

To me checking the battery is always the first step in eliminating the obvious.

 

[qstott]

Speaking of 445 charging systems.....
My son borrowed mine the other day, brought it home, washed it, and then it wouldn't crank. It had been running fine. We hooked the jump box to it and it fired right up. The cable ends looked kind of crusty, so I cleaned them and no more problems for a week. Friday I cut grass, and after I was finished I noticed that even at full throttle the battery light was on. I checked the battery voltage and it was about 11.6 volts. I charged it over night and when I checked it the next morning it was 13.6 volts. I'm thinking I just had a weak battery. (It's 3 years old). I cranked it up, and the battery light would flicker at 1/2 throttle, but go out at full throttle. It used to only flicker just at idle. I kept checking and cleaning connections. Somewhere during the process, the battery light seemed to behave normally. While putting the 445 away, I noticed that the light wasn't working at all.

I tested the bulb and it was fine. I tested the test points in the shop manual, and most test were fine. However, it didn't seem to be putting out as many volts as it should to charge the battery, only about 12.4. During this whole process I discovered that jiggling the brown wire from the voltage regulator seemed to affect the operation of the charge indicator light.

I'm leaning toward buying a voltage regulator. It appears that to replace the armature I will have to pull the engine, as it is behind the flywheel. Is that correct? Any comments or suggestions would be very helpful.

Thanks