JD 410 tlb reverser trouble

Goaliedavid · Apr 2, 2014

Have a 410 in my shop, was brought to me last week owner said clutch was slipping, I did question him as to if he was sure it was the clutch and not the reverser that might be the problem. The man is a know it all and just wanted us to split it and put a clutch in it!!!! Well we did that and yes the clutch and pressure plate did have some ware and it did look as f it had been slipping a bit. Long story short we put it back together and it is still slipping forward and reverse, to the point it will almost not pull itself. We checked psi at control valve 150 psi at the test port when floor shifts are in gear and reverser is in N, as soon as you shift forward or reverse psi drops to 0 and in 2-3 seconds will climb to 40ish. I believe we are gong to have to pull the reverser and rebuild both forward and reverse packs? I have "know it all" humbled now and want to make sure I am diagnosing the problem correctly anyone with hands on experience with this tractor?

Tx Jim · Apr 2, 2014

Yes sounds as if reverser or supply tubes are leaking. Due to the fact I was employed by an "Ag only" JD dealership my ind tractor knowledge is limited.

Goaliedavid · Apr 2, 2014

Thanks Jim, I was kind of thinking about pulling the control valve and going through it before we split again, just don't want to get too much time wrapped up into chasing quick fixes to only be back to the long road. We bill shop rate by the hour and customer is gong to have more into this thing than it is worth in real short order here, It s a pretty good old 410 backhoe but I cant imagine it would be worth more than 7-9K and we already have $1800 in clutch job and if reverser has to come out he is gong to have another 4-5K into it. :confused3:

metalsmith · Apr 4, 2014

I assume you have already checked the hydraulic oil for contaminates. I’ve seen dummies add all sorts of things besides 303 oil which will affect performance with component failures to follow shortly thereafter. Before pulling the whole control valve unit, check the shuttle delay circuit. ( controls how fast shuttle engages but if faulty will not engage) That’s a simple adjustable plunger assembly that might just need adjusting (if lucky) to a complete new assy. and seals. Hopefully that’s it, being a lot simpler than rebuilding the entire valve unit.

Goaliedavid · Apr 5, 2014

Thanks metalsmith, we did go ahead and pull the control valve, disassembled cleaned and checked all tolerances. Removing the reverser even in a well equipped shop is a 6 hour job, I wanted to eliminate all possible causes before we had to go that route. Reverser is now out and on the bench, the clutches look far but the drivers have been hot and are glazer they have definitely been slipping. I have yet to see a real smoking gun here as to where our shift psi was escaping to but the clutch packs need to be replaced and low psi trans pump gears do show some wear so we will replace them as well. All clutches and drivers, O-rings, pump gears, and gaskets are $850.00, this pails in comparison to the labor bill on the tractor and the owner is committed to dong it right now that he is in this deep. I always feel bad when someone brings something to us for repair and the bill ends up being near the value of the tractor. With reverser parts, the main clutch parts, oils and filters, misc shop supplies and labor the owner is gong to have a bill close to $5000.00, he will have a rock solid backhoe when it leaves our shop but that is quite an investment into a $8-10K tractor.
What the weekend warrior that owns one of these older 410s needs to understand is the first time they feel the trans is slipping they should stop and find out why. This man told me the tractor had been slipping for a couple of years and just got progressively worse until it would no longer pull itself. If he had addressed the problem early on I believe it would have been as simple as linkage and pressure adjustments maybe a filter change or relief valve sticking. With no real smoking gun found here yet to cause the failure we will have to rebuild the reverser and get it all back together adjust everything back to factory specs and check all pressures. I would not be at all surprised to find a sticky relief valve on the low pressure side of that system before we are finished. The reverser setup in that tractor looks as if it would be a very reliable setup but it is very sensitive to adjustment.