JD 1050 head gasket?

[qstott]

I just bought a John Deere 1050 at a good price. After working it over the weekend, it appears the head gasket is "seeping" on the left side. It's damp at the rear and more on the front and rear corners. It looks like replacing it will be a fairly straight foward repair. Anyone have any experience with this job? Comments? Suggestions? Thanks!

 

[AKfish]

Your dealer.... your dealer! You'll most likely have to buy the gasket set from them, anyway. And hopefully they'll have an old "moss-horn" mechanic shut away in the back that they allow the public to pet and pry some wisdom from over a cup of coffee!
Once you get the head off -- you might want some idea and recommendations about acceptable ring wear, etc. With the head off, it's not that much more of a project to drop the pan and pop out the pistons.
Re-ring her and new crankshaft and rod bearings, plane the head and grind the valves with new valve seals -- she's ready for another 3,000 hours!!! But if she's got a lot of blow-by and ring wear -- you'll be lookin' at a re-bore job (I don't think the engine is wet-sleeved..) so, you'd have to split the tractor. Should you reach this point; the cost/benefit of the project may begin to tilt and you might just replace the gasket and button 'er up again...
Oh yah, Ebay has several (Technical not Operator) original JD manuals for the 850-1050 series at auction. I think they're a good investment. Good luck with your project. AKfish /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[RickB]

If it starts and runs well otherwise, pull the head, have it checked for trueness, and install a new head gasket. Anything further is going to get into big bucks. The best info the other guy has is to get a tech manual off ebay.

 

[AKfish]

Posting in a forum or emails at work are a great tool for a quick and fast response of thought. Unfortunately, they can also be a poor vehicle for clear understanding. I'd like to believe that this is an example of that --
I said, seek professional advice from a skilled mechanic at the dealer. Head gaskets typically don't just fail -- like a valve cover gasket. Especially on an older tractor with over 3,100 hours.
I inquired if the engine burned oil and/or had excessive blow-by. That's a sure sign that he's got a tired motor that could use a rebuild.
Here again, a good mechanic could better detail the pros and cons of a reasonable course of action based upon the circumstances i.e. amount of ring wear measured at the top of the cylinder walls; .010, .020, .030; warped head, etc., etc.
I also recognized that money/economics of an older tractor and the cost of a rebuild "in place" might just "tilt" the decision to leave things as is -- and just button the engine back up with a new head gasket.
Lastly, if he does the work himself and can get by with removing the ring-wear at the top end of the cylinders and honing out the cylinders, a new set of rings (use old pistons), rework the head as I mentioned and new bearings. What's the worst case for that? $750-$1,000-$1,500? That's not an outrageous expense for having a strong running engine that will likely run several thousand hours more.
I'm old enough now and have had the experience of trying to get something done the easiest way possible. More often than not, it ends up costing a whole lot more in the long run. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
AKfish

 

[normde2001]

I would try re-torquing the head bolts first.

 

[RickB]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I said, seek professional advice from a skilled mechanic at the dealer. )</font>
You did say that, and it is good advise. I have 10 years experience as a New Holland service tech.
The post I read had no info on the number of hours on the tractor, or whether it has any repair history.
Head gaskets can and do fail, some applications more than others, and not always at the fault of the gasket.
I am going to make two assumptions about the 1050 from memory. One, main bearing R&R requires removing the engine from the tractor, as at least two mains are one-piece bearings.
Two, the 1050 has a wet-sleeve engine.
"Here" it is not commonly accepted practice to go through the effort to hone and re-ring any sleeved diesel engine while reusing the pistons. One can get away with that program on a gas engine. It is far too difficult to do this and achieve the high compression numbers needed for a good running Diesel. Worn rings probably mean worn ring grooves in the pistons which will not give a good compression seal even with new rings. Honing means a bore that is probably out of spec, which will require oversize rings at a minimum. If available, oversize rings on stock size pistons are a Band-Aid at best. If this tractor seemed to run well enough to buy, it is most likely running well enough to chance pulling the head, check it for trueness, check the sleeves for proper protrusion, and install a new head gasket using proper methods. If that doesn't work, pull the motor and go through it top to bottom, or sell it and move on. My opinion only, worth what the reader pays.

 

[qstott]

Thanks for posting guys! The tractor has 3100 hrs on it. No leaks or drips anywhere. Everything on it is dry except this slight seeping from the head gasket. It runs great! Starts right up, pulls good and runs strong. The temp light was not working when I bought it, and I was concerned that I would run it hot if the gasket was leaking badly. I have since repaired the warning lights. I bought the head gasket set, but have almost decided to wait and see after I put more hours on it. There are no signs of water and oil mixing. No heating problems yet, but I have not really worked it hard enough to be sure. When the engine is hot, you never see signs of a leak. The coolant dries up on the side of the block. It just bothers me that it is there when the rest of the tractor is leak free. I ran it for about 45 min. and after it sat for a little while I could see dampness on the edge of the gasket, and a slight run at the rear of the head. To be honest, I'm not sure it's worth the risk of breaking off exhaust manifold studs and other "surprises" to replace it yet. Decisions, decisions! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[AKfish]

Well, one of the best things about this site is the ever-present opportunity to learn something new! And the broad perspective that all the users bring to the table gives you a whole lot to choose from, too!
So, the 1050 is wet-sleeved. That's a new one for me. And you'd have to split the tractor and pull the engine to replace the crank bearings --- that's another new wrinkle. And if the rings are worn out on a diesel that it's always a good idea to replace the pistons 'cause the ring grooves on the pistons are likely too sloopy as well. That's all good info and I learned a few things.
Like most things, we tend to start out in small steps and see how those measures improve or fix the problem. That's why we ask for other ideas and opinions. (Is this a good approach or do you think it's a waste of time/money? How'd you do it, before?) The advice to just retorque the head bolts is a good first step. Try it and see what happens. You're only out your time and a new valve cover gasket.
And yup, those exhaust manifold bolts are gonna be a bear!! That turbo puts out some heat and it's gonna make the exhaust manifold a likely pain-in-the-butt. That's why I'd work on bouncin' thoughts and ideas off the dealer mechanics. They've had to get 'em out from many other engines and can walk you through the good and bad. They can also give you some likely causes for the leaky gasket --- and maybe it's something just "basic" to the 1050 engine and if you ain't been around a 1050 much; you'd never have any idea that-- well, they kinda all do that....
And they can give you some measured advice on likely costs. If you do the work and/or they do "some" of it. (You'd have to give them the head and block (sleeves) work to do.) That will all play into the cost/benefit of whatever decision you make. Nonetheless, you'll come up with the best approach --- heck, you bought the tractor --- didn't ya! That was a darn good idea to start with!!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif AKfish

 

[RobJ]

I figured the seeping was water and I think you confirmed that. The only bad news is the seeping could be from a cracked head. Not uncommom for an older tractor to be left out in the cold and get frozen. Only way you can really tell is to pull the head and have it checked. I did an inframe on my BIL's International 384 a few years back. Filled it with water and it started seeping from the back of the head. We left the head alone except for new valve seals and a valve cleaning. I ground down the area, applied some epoxy and she's still holding today. Beats a new head for an old tractor.

Good Luck and get the service manual.

 

[qstott]

Honestly, I decided that even if I had to buy a head (because it was cracked) it would be worth it. I gave $1500 for the tractor and spent a couple of hundred on two front tires, a battery and paint. I still think I got a great deal. I can get a new head with valves for about $1200, and I still think I got my moneys worth. I hope I can attach a pic of it.