Comparison JD 1025r vs. new Kubota BX23s - time to resurrect the debate

[oldbeercans]

I'm looking to buy a SCUT for snow removal, building fieldstone retaining walls, digging some trenches on 4 acres. I've narrowed to the new Kubota BX23s and the John Deere 1025r. After extensive research and tire kicking (tried them both out at dealerships), here's what I conclude:

- Backhoe- Kubota runs a little smoother, JD slighty more powerful. Kubota on/off a little eaiser. I call this one a tie.

- Loader- Kubota now has universal quick attach..nice and a tie or better than JD for that convenience. However, the QA is heavy and cuts the lift capacity 500mm from pivot pin down to 423 lbs., JD is 686 lbs for the same spec. JD can lift 263 more pounds. I'm in New England...rocks everywhere. I think that extra lift could be important. This is a big win for JD.

- Operator station- Kubota made many improvements: better seat, loader control now very ergonomic, nice compartment for phone, tilt steering wheel. JD held the advantage here vs the 25D but I now call this category a tie.

- Loader/Backhoe on/off- the Kubota now has a one lever on/off for the 4 flat faced hydraulic lines to the loader and improved stand. Operator does not have to get off the seat at all to install/remove loader. Also, pins on BH replaced with lever mechanism and hydraulic connections improved flat face for easier connect, less drip. Kubota is now a little better in this category where JD previously held the advantage.

- Driving/Operating Impression- Kubota has a slightly smaller wheelbase, a little narrower and a little shorter. Being a little smaller and having the curved boom with a neater stand, makes the Kubota feel more agile/lawn tractor-like (that's not a bad thing). The JD feels bulkier and a little more steady..more CUT-like. JD can perform at a lower idel. Call this a matter of personal preference, I like both.

- Dealer Price- Kubota $19,900. JD $20,700. Advantage Kubota. (anyone getting better pricing?)

- Warranty- Kubota now 6 years on drivetrain and 3 years all else. I beieve the JD warranty is the same. However, Kubotal has 3 years/500 hours (whichever first) free maintenance. Advantage Kubota.

- Dealership- I have quality dealers about the same distance (20 miles) from me. Tie here.

I was leaning toward the BX23s as I like the new loader and BH on/off and price is better. The ONE issue that is holding me up, is the FEL on the Kubota. 423 lbs lift capacity with the QA FEL (or 509 with pin-on bucket) just seems too low. I suspect the JD will be barely strong enough here to handle most rocks I need to lift and the Kubota just might not be able to handle many of the larger stones. I think the Kubota comes up short here because the curved loader arms put the bucket farther away from the machine.

- How's my reasoning? Do the numbers on the spec sheet tell the whole story? Unless I'm missing something on loader capability, I'll probably go for the JD.

 

[rustyshakelford]

I'm a Deere guy through and through. The only consistent advantage I know of across the lines in KTAC. Deere has their own insurance Andy I can't remember the company but it's not their own. Always hear good things about the KTAC though.

I think both machine would do you well but I have never heard someone say," I wish my loader wasn't so strong". Besides, green looks real good!

Brett

 

[Garrett Wiggins]

Johndeere uses Sentry insurance I believe.

 

[Grandad4]

New models for both Kubota and Deere look very nice to me. Hard to go wrong with either one.

Just some words of caution about loaders on these little tractors. I've been using my sub-cut (it's a BX), for more than 10 years now, alongside considerably larger equipment. Much as I love that little workhorse, I came to the conclusion quite a while ago that tossing around 500+ lb loads - you mentioned large rocks - with this size tractor is really a long-term adventure. Sooner or later, you'll do something that will scare the wits out of you because the platform is inherently too short, narrow and light to be handling quarter-ton loads with a high margin of security. A slight off-camber slope, a rut, a soft spot, a tire that's a few pounds underinflated, a slightly off-center load... it just doesn't take much to cause a bad day. While handling a bucket full of loose material (soil, sand, gravel, etc.), can be done fairly well, all too often sub-cut buyers have greater visions of also moving boulders, 12 ft. logs, their uncle's gun safe or the wife's upright piano based on marketing talk about testosterone-enhanced lift capacity. If the rocks on your place are big enough that you'll be working in the margin between the BX and the 1025 a lot, you really need bigger equipment. Just one guy's opinion.

 

[nybirdman]

New models for both Kubota and Deere look very nice to me. Hard to go wrong with either one.

Just some words of caution about loaders on these little tractors. I've been using my sub-cut (it's a BX), for more than 10 years now, alongside considerably larger equipment. Much as I love that little workhorse, I came to the conclusion quite a while ago that tossing around 500+ lb loads - you mentioned large rocks - with this size tractor is really a long-term adventure. Sooner or later, you'll do something that will scare the wits out of you because the platform is inherently too short, narrow and light to be handling quarter-ton loads with a high margin of security. A slight off-camber slope, a rut, a soft spot, a tire that's a few pounds underinflated, a slightly off-center load... it just doesn't take much to cause a bad day. While handling a bucket full of loose material (soil, sand, gravel, etc.), can be done fairly well, all too often sub-cut buyers have greater visions of also moving boulders, 12 ft. logs, their uncle's gun safe or the wife's upright piano based on marketing talk about testosterone-enhanced lift capacity. If the rocks on your place are big enough that you'll be working in the margin between the BX and the 1025 a lot, you really need bigger equipment. Just one guy's opinion.

Totally agree!Size your tractor to the most difficult(heaviest) job.We always say to upsize in this forum;mostly from past experience.

 

[oldbeercans]

New models for both Kubota and Deere look very nice to me. Hard to go wrong with either one.

Just some words of caution about loaders on these little tractors. I've been using my sub-cut (it's a BX), for more than 10 years now, alongside considerably larger equipment. Much as I love that little workhorse, I came to the conclusion quite a while ago that tossing around 500+ lb loads - you mentioned large rocks - with this size tractor is really a long-term adventure. Sooner or later, you'll do something that will scare the wits out of you because the platform is inherently too short, narrow and light to be handling quarter-ton loads with a high margin of security. A slight off-camber slope, a rut, a soft spot, a tire that's a few pounds underinflated, a slightly off-center load... it just doesn't take much to cause a bad day. While handling a bucket full of loose material (soil, sand, gravel, etc.), can be done fairly well, all too often sub-cut buyers have greater visions of also moving boulders, 12 ft. logs, their uncle's gun safe or the wife's upright piano based on marketing talk about testosterone-enhanced lift capacity. If the rocks on your place are big enough that you'll be working in the margin between the BX and the 1025 a lot, you really need bigger equipment. Just one guy's opinion.

Yes, I hear you. My first machine was a JCB 214S. I got the biggest stuff done with that and then went to a JD 3033R. I finished up with that and sold it but now just annexed the property next door which needs work. When I went from the JCB to the 3033, the JD seemed very tippy and barely capable of handling decent sized rocks. I know these SCUT machines have serious limits but I still feel that the ability to carefully handle the occasional larger rock with the JD is kind of a big deal. If it weren't for the better FEL lift capacity and the slightly longer/wider wheelbase of the JD, I'd be all over the new BX23s...sweet little machine. I also considered a Kubota B2601 TLB. The FEL on this machine is spec'd out to perform about the same as the loader on the JD 1025r. But it's a longer/slightly wider machine (only slightly heavier than 1025) with larger wheels. I suspect this would give more stability when I do try to tackle a larger stone. It's also about $5k more expensive than the JD1025. What do you think...even though the FEL on the B2601 rates about the same as the JD 1025r, it probably would more safely/stably handle those larger rocks? The JD 2 series is getting too large for me...I'm concerned about compressing grass roots. Here's a retaining wall I did with the JD3033r...the larger rocks wouldn't go with the 1025r I'm sure but I'm guessing I could muscle many of these with the 1025, but possibly not with the BX23s

 

[nybirdman]

We had a local fellow that built walls like that totally by hand.He was in his 70's when his "helper" took over the business.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I just finished shooting a video comparison of these two a few days ago. Its not edited yet. One big thing that jumped out at me was the Deere just feels older. The control layout is not as modern, levers coming up from under the seat, old school looking gauge cluster. The egronomics of the Kubota are quite a bit better. The backhoe is very clearly made more cheaply than the Kubota.

If you want a bit more capacity on the Kubota, ditch the SSL coupler for the older pin grabber coupler. It would save the coupler weight. On both these tractors, the lift capacity is higher than the spec sheets lead you to believe.

 

[TheMan419]

If the rocks on your place are big enough that you'll be working in the margin between the BX and the 1025 a lot, you really need bigger equipment. Just one guy's opinion.

Amen. I have been spending a good bit of time using my Boomer 24 to move full buckets of soil. In my area that means CLAY. So I am pushing the limits of what the NH can lift. Definite pucker factor. I do not see this as a long term need. I am hiring out moving most of the dirt. However if I was going to do this regularly I would want a bigger machine.

So those rocks you are going to move that are at the limit of the lift capacity.... how often? Also note I had to move some of that dirt into places that I could not have my bush hog on as counter weight. Pucker factor went through the roof. With the hog on as counter weight is was doable, but not something I would want to do all the time. Thankfully the project where I could not use the hog is done and not likely to need repeating.

 

[Dave in Indy]

If you're open to something outside Deere or Kubota, take a look at the LS XJ2025.