insulation for pole barn and roll-up doors

[hokiebird]

I've read previous threads on this subject, and wanted to see if anyone has some updated information based on real-life experience in a climate similar to where I live.

I live in Nebraska - south of Lincoln. So we have pretty cold winters and hot summers. Not very high humidity, though (compared to other places I've lived).

I'm designing a multi-purpose pole barn building. 40' x 64' x 16'. The front half will be garage/shop/equipment storage. Then the rear half of the building will be food processing (canning, freezing, honey extraction) and a recreation room. There will be a full bathroom in it as well. This building will be used year-round.

I have looked at the open cell (low density) spray foam insulation. Got an estimate for about $5K to do the walls, and ~$6K to do the roof. Lotta money.

Also looked at the system from Thermal Designs. Their system looks good, especially for the roof. I am waiting to get estimates from them.

I want insulation that is worry-free and effective. I don't want to worry about it being compressed, or getting leaks/tears in the vapor barrier and having condensation/corrosion/mold problems. I want something that I install, and then never have to worry about again.

I have looked at some spray-foamed buildings, and like what I see. However, I want to be sure that the cost is justified if I go that route.

Does anyone have experience with Thermal Designs?

I'm a little hesitant to go with fiberglass bats in the walls; mainly because I'd be worried about leaks in the vapor barrier, no matter how careful I was in putting it on. Also, I want something that is air-tight and that will provide a good seal against bugs and rodents.

I looked at Morton, and they used fiberglass bats, but with an airgap between the steel panel and the insulation. I'm not going with Morton, though - too expensive and a local outfit has a better reputation around here.

Also, I'm planning on two auto-opening doors. I don't want the frames for overhead doors getting in the way (putting in a basketball goal for the kids to use in bad weather). So I'm planning on using insulated roll-up doors. Anything wrong with that option?

Any new/updated info or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[anojones]

I to went through this with our shop that has a heated/air conditioned studio for my wife- I live in a similar climate, cold winters, hot summers with not much humidity. In the end, I used fiberglass batts with a vapor barrier. I did it this way because I couldn't justify the cost of sprayed foam at the time and because I could do the fiberglass myself. While I haven't had any problems, if I were to do it again I'd hire out the spray foam. The issue with a pole barn (at least one with metal siding) is that the heated air inside will allow vapor through the insulation and condense on the metal (you essentially have fiberglass between two vapor barriers and the water can get stuck in the middle). The way Morton seems to deal with this is to allow an air gap so the fiberglass doesn't contact the wall- this allows for ventilation within the wall and would limit the condensation directly on the metal and allow the water to evaporate up the wall and out the top. The way I did it was with thick plastic vapor barrier, but I'm not fooling myself into thinking no vapor is getting through- if the fiberglass gets soaked, I'm in for a mess in the future. The spray foam essentially eliminates the vapor problem as it is sprayed directly on the metal. It also quiets the building and supposedly adds some structural support as well- tying everything together.

 

[QRTRHRS]

IMHO, the best add on for any pole barn, open or closed is to include the bubble wrap insulation with foil on both sides. About 1/4" thick overall, the cost is minimal, the benefits in terms of moisture maximum. It will eliminate all of that "raining" in the building. I have never heard that it will cause rust damage on the tin.

Laid over the roof or side purlins, it is a solid vapor barrier. Granted, you would not want to spray foam against it I suppose but for fiberglass it would be just fine. As I see it, sprayed foam is not going to get between the steel and the purlins and there will always be moisture there.

If my plan was to construct a building with a ceiling, I would go with the bubble wrap under the roof steel and then any of the conventional types of insulation over the ceiling. I would vent the roof peak and eaves.

If you plan on fiberglass in the walls, you would want to pour your concrete floor right up against the skirt board and use ratguard under the siding tin.

 

[framer]

I chose closed spray on foam on my 50 by 30 pole barn shop.Walls and ceilings.$1.00 sq. ft. Worth every penny in my books.Before insulated shop
was lose and drafty in Ks.winds.Made walls and roof very ridged.Never gets
below zero inside in winter i do not heat it all the time just when i need it.
Cooler in summer.I have insulated 18x10 overhead door does a goo job.I
I would highly recommend it only negative cost.Good luck. Framer

 

[tommu56]

Some thoughts off the top of my head.

Insulate the floor and vapor barrier.
The floor it cant be insulated after the the floor is done all the rest can be.

At least put a vapor barrier down under the concrete to keep moisture from coming through the concrete that will help a lot on the moisture in the building

tom

 

[hokiebird]

Yes, I'm planning on putting a vapor barrier in before pouring the floor. Also I'm looking at installing radiant heat in the floor as well. I plan on putting rigid board foam insulation around the perimeter. I've seen various pros and cons on putting foam insulation boards underneath the concrete. Some places say the foam won't support the weight loads; some say it is fine.

Some thoughts off the top of my head.

Insulate the floor and vapor barrier.
The floor it cant be insulated after the the floor is done all the rest can be.

At least put a vapor barrier down under the concrete to keep moisture from coming through the concrete that will help a lot on the moisture in the building

tom

 

[Mike Costello]

When they built my 30X60 shop it was insulated with 1/4" bubble wrap shiny side out and white side facing in. Metal siding was then installed on top. It made for a comfortable work space both in winter and summer with minimal heating and cooling. I had them install a full length vented ridge cap to keep the air moving. I installed two 10X16 overhead doors that were also insulated and powered which was very convenient. I have had no problems with moisture which was a concern because of my shop equipment. I live in Missouri which probably doesn't get as cold as Nebraska, but humidity can be a problem. So far so good. Mike.

 

[coobie]

I live in Michigan so I would guess our temps are some what the same.I went with the closed cell spray in my 34X24X13 barn(insulated overhead door).I had them spray about 2-3 inches thick sidewalls & ceiling($1.00 per sq ft.).I have a 30,000 BTU LP wall heater that will keep it 70-75 degrees in the barn when its 10 degrees outside.coobie

 

[hokiebird]

Coobie - any particular reason you went with closed-cell vs. open cell foam? Have you covered up the foam with sheetrock or paneling or just let it be?

 

[coobie]

Coobie - any particular reason you went with closed-cell vs. open cell foam? Have you covered up the foam with sheetrock or paneling or just let it be?

The owner of the company who insulated my barn suggested the closed cell so that is what I went with.I left mine exposed,looks kind of ugly according to the wife.LOL,coobie.