IH B-275 glow plug shard lost - pull heads?

[rectifier]

Had a pair of glows fail on me. I have a set of new 12V Bosch to replace them.

I managed to recover the burnt out piece of one via shop vac. The other... I could see the edge of it, but on attempt to seize it with needle-nose pliers, it dropped back and down, probably about 1/4", somewhere inside what I assume is the precombustion chamber.

The intake valve for this cylinder is closed but I've pulled the injector, valve cover and intake manifold and still can't determine whether it could have dropped into the cylinder or if it will be held back by the valve. I assume that as the diesel is injected into the chamber in question, it is inside the valves and the piece could have fallen right into the cylinder. However I've never had the heads off this machine so don't know exactly what is in there.

So... any ideas to recover it other than pulling the heads off? That's a lot of work for a tiny piece of crap This is our winter chore tractor and we're going to be rolling round bales by hand until it's fixed, not much fun.

 

[RPW]

Which is cheaper, manhours to pull head or manhours to rebuild motor?

 

[Dave M7040]

Since you are in Canada I would suggest you either buy or find someone with this borescope sold by Princess Auto for about $150.
8-1/2 mm Wifi Borescope | Princess Auto.
It is a tiny camera and light on a flexible rod which sends an image back to a screen for viewing.
The head of the rod is 8.5 mm diameter and will fit into small holes like spark plug ones to allow you to look inside the cylinder.
It would let you see if there is any piece inside and might help you decide how to get it out if it is there.
More expensive units have a grabber included in the flexible rod. Medical ones are an expensive example of these.
Dave M7040

 

[IH3444]

Get your vacuum cleaner, and by duct taping a cap on the end of the hose, with a small hole in it, use a smaller piece of flexible tubing taped through the hole and try to suck out the small pieces. You may want to clean the vac first, replace the internal bag to see if you got the pieces out. I was told a story that a VW tech on a TDI got some small shards of a cracked ceramic glow plug out like this.

 

[rectifier]

Could not get boroscope into cylinder as the injector port is too small. Tried vac, great idea but the small hose basically confirmed the cylinder is directly below the chamber, at the bottom of its stroke, and that the piece will have fallen in. Can't get anything to suction to the hose. Guess the heads are coming off!

 

[Coyote machine]

I'd take a chance and put it together and start it. Might do damage, might not. Pulling the heads is a lot of work for a tiny piece that might get pounded into nothing by the piston/valve, etc.:confused3:

 

[Mace Canute]

This is just a wild *** suggestion and I have no idea if it has any probability of working but before I just fired it up and hoped for the best I'd take the valve cover off and force the exhaust valve open as far as practical and then try to blow air at full compressor pressure into the glow plug hole. With a whole lot of luck the little shard just might get blown past the exhaust valve.

 

[Dave M7040]

Could not get boroscope into cylinder as the injector port is too small. Tried vac, great idea but the small hose basically confirmed the cylinder is directly below the chamber, at the bottom of its stroke, and that the piece will have fallen in. Can't get anything to suction to the hose. Guess the heads are coming off!

Here is a much smaller borescope arrangement sold by King Tools.
At 4.5 mm it will likely fit.

In Ontario King Tools are sold by Home Hardware.
Dave M7040

 

[orezok]

Borescopes which attach to your computer go for $20.00 +/- on Amazon or eBay.

 

[skyhook]

Have you tried to bring the piston back up to top dead center, and take a look from there.

 

[Ed of all trades]

We had a PVC valve come apart when I was a kid. It bounced around on top of the cylinder and did damage and we ended up pulling the head any way. If you can't get the scope in you will have a question in your mind every time you turn the key. I'd pull the head If you cant get a smaller scope. Ed

 

[KubotaToy]

I have a harbor freight borescope that I think cost $69 on sale. It has a magnet on the end of the scope, used it several times on my race car motors for inspection and removal of spark plug tips in the cylinders. Works good but you have to get it within an 1" of the item you want to see, so it has to get to the bottom of the cylinder if you are looking for something on top of the piston.

 

[rectifier]

Neat little boroscope there at 4mm! With the cold coming and it being far more fun to work when your hands aren't numb, I just went ahead and pulled the heads this weekend. There it was on top of the piston. Almost the entire loop of the plug, 1/2" x 1/4" chunk. There were also shards of the other plug in the neighbouring cylinder, so it was a good thing I pulled it.

The design of the precombustion chambers is practically designed to funnel junk into the cylinder. While I had the heads off I scraped carbon and did a real good cleanup on them inside and out, which is hard to do with the motor in (loader frame etc. in the way). So now that 50 years of dirt and crud is off, I've got a good chance to degrease it, paint the block up and make it look nice.

Also a chance to finally do a couple mods while it's out
- exhaust manifold flip for vertical exhaust
- pulled the injector studs to get room to thread in a 90 for the circulating heater, which cleans that up a lot
- drilled and tapped a new port for electronic temp. sensor

so all in all, time well spent I guess.

My only complaint is having to reuse the head gasket, but at least it's in great shape. Any recommendations on sealant?

 

[IH3444]

I think reusing the head gasket, especially on a diesel engine is a great big no-no. You should measure the gasket thickness and get a new gasket of that dimension. Some head gaskets have a number on them so you can get the same thickness. This is important for a diesel engine. Get a high quality gasket also.

 

[zombie]

A quick search shows head gaskets for 25-60 in US. The only thing I'd consider reusing a head gasket on is an old 3.5 hp Briggs and Stratton lol.

 

[Coyote machine]

Definitely DON'T reuse the head gasket. That's a recipe for disaster. Once and done on any diesel. I wouldn't even do it on a gas engine. You removed the head(s) to prevent a problem, I suggest you don't create a worse possible one. Do it right, do it once.

 

[rectifier]

I've never reused a head gasket before and am not too happy about the idea, but availability is very poor here in Canada. It's reuse or wait weeks for freight, and if it comes from the States and gets hung up in customs, months. With snow in the air, the machine needs to be running this week or things will start to get out of control quickly.

A lot of the old-timers I know say it's no problem to reuse a copper gasket on a low-spec diesel like this one, so I might as well give it a try and monitor closely for colored smoke or contamination of the oil. If it doesn't seal, it will be apparent pretty quickly.

 

[Dave M7040]

Rectifier
I am with those who think re-use is a bad choice with one exception.
If the gasket is SOLID copper you can anneal it to soften it and make it better able to conform to the mating surfaces.
If it is a sandwich of copper with another material in the middle then this wont work.

Have you tried finding the fastest, not cheapest way to get one shipped to you from the USA. I got a carb for my generator from China in just over a week to Ontario Canada. Shipping is getting better all the time.
Dave M7040

 

[rectifier]

Unfortunately, the gasket was not solid copper. It's a copper/asbestos sandwich or something along those lines. But with weather conditions such that we cannot feed our ewe lambs by hand (too mucky to roll bales, hurry up and freeze already!) I was forced to dress it with 3 coats of Permatex Copper HG product and reinstall it.

It would have worked perfectly, too. But the fatal problem was that I broke the only helicoil for 100 miles because it hung up on a bad thread. No, there was no tap for it, I had to beg for it as it was, found in a drawer in the corner at an auto shop. Chased with a 1/2NC tap, right thread pitch, wrong diameter. Too small.
So, I ended up installing the corner head bolt into only 3 coils of a snapped helicoil. It took only 60lbs before stretching. The rest of the head is torqued to 70lbs.

So, the tractor starts and runs well, but gently weeps coolant from that corner of the head. No other leaks and good compression None appears to be going into the cylinder, thank god, and no oil passages nearby. We can feed the lambs and I can get a helicoil kit and order a new HG (think I will order a pair, to have a spare)

Any recommended Canadian suppliers? SSB has them amazingly cheap, but I always worry when ordering from the USA about getting that bill in the mail for a stupid $40 UPS "customs charge". Seems to be random whether I get charged or not.

Dave I was amazed how much easier it is to get things from China than the USA these days. I too ordered a Chinese carb, for my Honda trike. Carb was amazingly cheap, shipping was free and fast. No surprise bill from a shipping company. Only complaint - they shipped the carb in an envelope. A paper envelope. By the time it arrived, Canada Post had put it in a plastic bag and relabelled it as only shreds of the envelope remained. Luckily, no damage!