Hydraulic system diagram with factory remote and DA Questions

[DiskDoctr]

I've been asking Q's and tracking down info and now I have some specific Q's and possible issues I need help with.

This is on a 2004 Mahindra 3510 with a single dealer/factory installed set of rear remotes and control lever for the remote.

I have drawn out the diagram using the manuals (much of which is wrong and contradict each other- different configs?) and actually looking at the machine and taking pics.

The main issue I have right now is the rear remotes/valve is operated by linkage from the additional lever and only has one line going to it. You can see the valve just below the QDs in the attached picture.

I don't see a return line, but am guessing that it has a sneak circuit (at least that's what we'd call in in the electronic world) that returns fluid directly to the tank via the 3PT section through a port (?) under the valve (manifold of some sort?)

This prevents me from installing a 12 VDC solenoid before that valve because I don't have access to the return line. That's okay because I'd like to use the existing lever/valve to control the additional remotes, as selected via the solenoid (selector).

I am planning to remove the QDs from their current location, plumb (steel?) lines from that location to the selector and put the original, plus an extra set of QDs on to the selector outputs. This is what I am showing in the drawing.

But I have a BIG question:

Will I be able to add a DA cylinder with power/pressure in both directions via this valve?

I have a hydraulic top link from CCM and it doesn't have any down pressure. Without weight on the top link, it won't extend. Not usually an issue, just a factor. I want to add a hydraulic tilt cylinder.

I don't know if that is due to the cylinder or the valve/remote setup. I am hoping someone recognizes the setup and knows for sure. It makes a big difference in what and how I do about remotes.

I would like to avoid an extra lever(s) if possible. Right now I'm thinking about only adding one additional remote, though I have considered and asked about adding 2.

Since I can't find a single 3 circuit selector, the method that was suggested and would work is pricey. Might not want to spend that much. Could probably live with switching QD hoses a few times a year.

So if some hydraulic and/or Mahindra folks could take a look at the drawing and make any corrections they find, and if I could get some input on the project, I'd sure appreciate it.

I know this is long, but this is the culmination of a fair amount of effort and a number of previous responses and suggestions. I wanted to be thorough and not repeat the same Q's.

Thanks!

- JC

 

[DiskDoctr]

An additional pic of the code stamped on the existing remote.
PTO solenoid, mounting plate under right foot pedals.

- JC

 

[kennyd]

A lot to digest, so lets pick this apart.

You/we need to find out why your remote will not power the HTL cylinder in both directions. After you sort that out, then adding a diverter will be a piece of cake I think. It does in fact look to me like the return for the remote valve is through the mounting plate, so I am assuming the line on top is the IN port.

When you move the lever to operate this valve, does the linkage move equally in both directions? In other words-could the lack of power to the cylinder be mechanical and not hydraulic? A simple gauge setup will help you test and troubleshoot accurately.

 

[DiskDoctr]

A lot to digest, so lets pick this apart.

You/we need to find out why your remote will not power the HTL cylinder in both directions. After you sort that out, then adding a diverter will be a piece of cake I think. It does in fact look to me like the return for the remote valve is through the mounting plate, so I am assuming the line on top is the IN port.

When you move the lever to operate this valve, does the linkage move equally in both directions? In other words-could the lack of power to the cylinder be mechanical and not hydraulic? A simple gauge setup will help you test and troubleshoot accurately.

Kennyd,

Thanks for looking at this and your reply.

Yes, the top line on the remote valve comes right from the PB on the FEL, so it would be in.

The cylinder moves both directions, mostly. If the cylinder is fully retracted and the 3pt is up in the air and in a little bit of a bind, many times it doesn't want to extend. If I lower the arms a little bit, it will lower.

When the top link is not attached to anything, it extends fine and with enough strength to bind the attachment. Can't say force from that. I wonder if the two way (?) check valve has something to do with it when fully retracted?

Note: I did find a small leak in the return line by the filter. The 5" piece of rubber hose between the sections of steel line. Maybe it's low on fluid? My new filters (oil and hydraulic) are arriving tomorrow, so I'll be checking and topping it off. Also have a piece of 1.25" ID radiator hose with 6" straight sections I'll cut for the line.

I nicked that this summer and cut it shorter and did a field-expedient repair. I noticed a little hydraulic on the ground last night while crawling around looking at the lines. I had planned to replace the piece, but didn't think it was leaking :ashamed:

I don't have a gauge setup yet. Was planning to order one when ordering the selector. Am I correct that these are JIC fittings? (I don't know one from the other)

I did see in one of the manuals something about restrictors in the FEL piping to reduce cavitation. It also mentioned with the Nimco's regen valve these wouldn't be necessary. Would these actually slow my FEL? If so I will have to check carefully in the lines for these fittings.

Thanks again!

- JC

 

[kennyd]

The gauge just needs to plug into one of the QD's, so all you need is a nipple that fits...(see picture of mine below)

The fittings you posted the picture of look like JIC's, but not 100% sure unless I see them disconnected.

A suction line leak is bad for sure-but I doubt it's causing your remote problem.

I know my FEL has one restrictor in it, on the lower circuit to help prevent cavitation as well as control the speed at which the loader falls (like when you put it in float-it won't slam down).

 

[magicheater]

This sounds familiar. When you say that the 3 point is "in a bind" it would suggest still calling for fluid and dumping excess. When you lower the 3 point a bit the valve is satisfied and "power flows beyond". When I have my logging grapple on I need three remotes plus the 3 point lift to use it effectively. When lifting it I can literally not have one of the lift components work because I am using the one in front of it in the series sequence of power beyond. It has been a while but I think that the 3 point is before the factory 3rd remote. I put the joystick between the FEL and the 3 point. Try setting the limits of your 3 point lift and you may eliminate the "binding"

 

[DiskDoctr]

Thanks for the advice, magicheater. I'll have to check that out.

- JC

 

[DiskDoctr]

Guess what I saw today? The remote valves setup the way I was wondering about!

The existing remote valve seems to be stackable (!)

Although the numbers may be different, this setup looks just like mine but with 2 additional valves and levers. This was on a new 4535 (I think)

Anybody know about these or how to get them? Or a compatible "module" I could add? I can rig up levers.

Here is some eye candy. Sorry about the pics, cell phone.

- JC

 

[kennyd]

I doubt you will find "off-the-shelf" parts to add to your valves, most manufacturers have the valves "custom" made for them buy a valve company-so you have to go to a dealer to get parts.

Example: Husco is the OEM of a lot of the valves Kubota uses on their machines, If you call Husco about getting a part-as soon as you tell them the model number of the valve (on the casting) they will tell you that you MUST go through Kubota to get part and info, end of discussion with them.

 

[DiskDoctr]

I doubt you will find "off-the-shelf" parts to add to your valves, most manufacturers have the valves "custom" made for them buy a valve company-so you have to go to a dealer to get parts.

Example: Husco is the OEM of a lot of the valves Kubota uses on their machines, If you call Husco about getting a part-as soon as you tell them the model number of the valve (on the casting) they will tell you that you MUST go through Kubota to get part and info, end of discussion with them.

Kennyd,

Makes sense about the custom part. I asked the "dealer" here if could get me info about the remote valves, a quick attach adapter for the FEL, and a few other things. He looked at me like I had 3 heads.

He did call Mahindra, but the first 2 numbers he called didn't work and the 3rd required him to wait for a callback. I don't think he calls them much.

As I said to my father when I called him later that eve (he lives out of state) it is one thing if a place like that is just an order taker and sells at discounted prices. You aren't paying for any knowledge then. But this place sells at full retail ($45 hydraulic filter), yet doesn't even know the differences or main features of the models on his floor...

Oh well, I'm just glad he had the filter! As for "dealer" items, I will be ordering from an online dealer when needed...Gee, wonder where I'll find helpful and knowledgeable dealers online...

If anyone can get me info on those stackable remote valves-price and if they will fit my valve, I'd appreciate it. With or without levers.

Thanks!