Hydraulic question

[wood butcher]

OK...I had way too much hydro fluid in my Ford 1920. It was that way when I bought it. It also had water in the hydro system so I decided to drain the system, change out the filter and refill to the CORRECT level. I did all of that then started the tractor up and no hydraulics...not even the 3-point. I might add I had hydraulic issues before that but I think my 3-point worked. The loader would go up and down when I purchased the tractor a few months back but started to not work recently.

I completely disconected the hydro lines from the lift arms and moved the control lever like I would if I was lifting the loader and just a little bit of hydro fluid came out. So...I dont think the pump is working as it should. I should also note I used a WIX filter, not NH. So, I'm stumped...what might be causing the hydros to not work. Do I need to somehow bleed the air out or something? My Deere was a self bleeding system but I'm not sure about the Ford. Anyone have any ideas where I might start?

 

[J_J]

You should cycle the loader from 3 to 10 rimes. If you operate the loader several times, the fluid will try and compress the air in the cyl/hoses, and then if the valve is in neutral, the cyl are locked, and the air in the hoses is compressed, and if you loosen the fittings on the cyl, the air will force the fluid out. Just cycle the loader, until the air is purged. Recheck the fluid level. If you have water in the hyd system, you will get an over fill situation.

 

[wood butcher]

JJ the loader doesnt lift or curl...absolutely nothing.

 

[wood butcher]

I've looked through the manual and it really doesn't give much troubleshooting information. I'm stumped.

 

[jinman]

When you put the filter on, did you fill it with clean hydraulic fluid or screw it on empty? The filter is on the suction side of the pump. I always try to prefill my filters to keep the hydraulic pump from having to prime itself while sucking so much air. You might take the filter off carefully and fill it to see if that makes a difference. The other thing you can do is crack open the fitting to the inlet to the pump and pressurize the reservoir through the fill hole with maybe 10-20 PSI of air. If you do that, you may see fluid dripping out of the fitting at the pump to indicate a full prime. Don't use too much pressure or you may blow the filter gasket out. Avoid being tempted to use full air pressure. I would start at 10 psi and never go above 20 psi. Remember, you are not only pressurizing the supply line, but also the return lines when you apply pressure to the reservoir. Hopefully just by filling your filter and reinstalling it you will get flow and not need to pressurize the reservoir at all. my guess is your pump is a bit worn and is just having a bit of a problem priming itself.

 

[wood butcher]

When I put the filter on, no, I didn't fill it. After letting the beast run for a few min I shut it off & removed the filter to find out it was clear full. I also looked up the micron rating on the WIX filter and it's 70 microns. I've since tried to do the same with the NH filter for my 1920 and have yet to find it.

I'll try the other procedure you mentioned and see what happens. I may get time tonight. If not it will be a few days as it is supposed to get down to a whopping 1 degrees and stay in the teens for the next few days. I think you guys are supposed to get it too. Thanks for the tip Jim. It's greatly appreciated.

One question...I'm pretty mechanically inclined. Would I be playing a fools game to attempt to rebuild my hydro pump myself or is it something that's best left to those who do it for a living? I asked a mechanic friend of mine the same question regarding rebuilding the transmission out of my truck and he quickly got that idea out of my head.

 

[jinman]

I think you could do a rebuild after watching somebody, but things that might be intuitive after seeing it done might be overlooked doing it from scratch. If your dealer would do it, I'd take the pump to them and let them do the rebuild kit while you do the disassembly/reassembly.

Also, didn't you have a bunch of water in the oil? Is it possible you have a slug of ice somewhere causing problems. If you can get the tractor indoors for 24 hours and see what happens, that would be good. If your hydraulics worked before this fluid change, I just don't understand why they would suddenly quit. Unless there was a mechanical failure, I would expect a slow deterioration over time rather than a sudden stoppage. It would really be a kick in the behind to get the pump rebuilt and still have a problem, wouldn't it?

BTW: I suppose the Wix filter could be at fault. As silly as it sounds, do you have the old filter laying around? Another OEM New Holland filter would surely be cheaper than an overhaul too. I'd bet you didn't save that much money over the New Holland price anyhow. Recently I looked at prices and found some Wix filters to be more expensive than the NH ones.

 

[JC-jetro]

One question...I'm pretty mechanically inclined. Would I be playing a fools game to attempt to rebuild my hydro pump myself or is it something that's best left to those who do it for a living? I asked a mechanic friend of mine the same question regarding rebuilding the transmission out of my truck and he quickly got that idea out of my head.

I have done the pump overhaul on my 1700 and it was pretty easy. I worked, diagnosed, help to overhaul a few gear driven fuel oil pumps and they all have pretty much the same concept weather fuel or oil. If you are patient, have basic tools and comfy with wrenching then I think is a very much a doable thing. Heck of lot easier than transmission overhaul. You can search couple of thread I opened under my name that explains the procedure with lots of pics. If you can't find it I can dig it up and post a link.

JC,


Pump overhaul kit and the shaft seal ran about $55. from NH loacal dealer.

 

[wood butcher]

I think you could do a rebuild after watching somebody, but things that might be intuitive after seeing it done might be overlooked doing it from scratch. If your dealer would do it, I'd take the pump to them and let them do the rebuild kit while you do the disassembly/reassembly.

Also, didn't you have a bunch of water in the oil? Is it possible you have a slug of ice somewhere causing problems. If you can get the tractor indoors for 24 hours and see what happens, that would be good. If your hydraulics worked before this fluid change, I just don't understand why they would suddenly quit. Unless there was a mechanical failure, I would expect a slow deterioration over time rather than a sudden stoppage. It would really be a kick in the behind to get the pump rebuilt and still have a problem, wouldn't it?

BTW: I suppose the Wix filter could be at fault. As silly as it sounds, do you have the old filter laying around? Another OEM New Holland filter would surely be cheaper than an overhaul too. I'd bet you didn't save that much money over the New Holland price anyhow. Recently I looked at prices and found some Wix filters to be more expensive than the NH ones.

Yes I had a bunch of water in the oil. I was having issues with the loader not working/working intermittently before I changed the filter/fluid. That prompted me to check the fluid level. I found there to be nearly 15 gallons of fluid in there when there's only supposed to be 6.8. I've looked at the oil in the crank case and it's not contaminated. Now that I've changed the fluid out it still looks milky. I expected this because I couldn't get every drop of fluids out but it's still pretty milky. I do have the old filter still. I considered slapping it on just for grins and I may still do that. The WIX filter was about $30 so no...I didn't save much money on it. There is a NH dealer about 50 yards from where I work. I should have just gone down there to get a NH filter. I had expected to change the fluid again so I didn't want to throw good money away in these tough times.

I don't think there's any ice anywhere as it has been warm here for over a week. I could be wrong though. I considered running the tractor for a while to get it up to operating temperature then trey again. I was worried I'd damage something by doing that though. What do you think? I really don't have a place to park it indoors so I may have to wait for warmer weather.

 

[wood butcher]

I have done the pump overhaul on my 1700 and it was pretty easy. I worked, diagnosed, help to overhaul a few gear driven fuel oil pumps and they all have pretty much the same concept weather fuel or oil. If you are patient, have basic tools and comfy with wrenching then I think is a very much a doable thing. Heck of lot easier than transmission overhaul. You can search couple of thread I opened under my name that explains the procedure with lots of pics. If you can't find it I can dig it up and post a link.

JC,


Pump overhaul kit and the shaft seal ran about $55. from NH loacal dealer.

Kinda what I was thinking. The manual says the only parts you change are the seals and o-rings.

What's the chance that my leaking lift arms and one of the lines going into the control valve leaking would cause it to do nothing. I just went out there and reved it up to 2000 RPM and watched to see if it would move even a little bit and it didnt. I would expect it to do SOMETHING.