Hydraulic Pumps Leaking again!

[Jaybr]

Some of you probably remember my post back in May when I had my CK35 in the shop for leaking hydraulic pump and Kioti refused to cover it under warranty because I had rear remotes.

Well, I've had the tractor back since the last week of May, all I've used it for in that time is to mow the lawn a few times. (<45 minutes per mowing)

Yesterday I removed the finish mower and hooked up the 5' brush mower and ask my son to mow the sides of the driveway. It only takes about 30 minutes to mow, and before he finished the hydraulic pump started leaking again.

So the tractor has a brand new $1200 pump, I've done no work that taxed the hydraulics (backhoe or FEL have not been on the tractor), have about 5 hours on the new pump, and it's blown a seal.

I'm trying to think positive in this situation, hoping that maybe this time Kioti will realize that the last pump problem was caused by something other than the rear remote valves and I'll get it fixed and a refund for the work in May.

I'm not a tractor engineer, but I'm thinking maybe the relief valve is not working? Maybe something in the power steering is causing excessive pressure? It did blow a power steering line last year, and I didn't use it much since replacing until April when the first pump problem appeared.

The only thing in common with this time and last was the PTO was running both times.

Since the last time I've been paying close attention to noises, and I never hear any squeel or whine in the hydraulics like I used too. I haven't had any hydraulic implements attached, but from what I remember even if you turn the steering to full stop you'll hear some squeeling which I assume is the pressure relief valve.

If the valve is stuck closed, this may explain a couple things,

1. Why the dealer never noticed that the rear remotes where engaged
2. Why the dealer claimed the pump overheated in 2-3 minutes while Kioti claimed it would take 15.

I'll be calling both the dealer and the tech guy at Kioti tomorrow morning.

 

[Gator6x4]

The only thing in common with this time and last was the PTO was running both times.

I beleive the seals leaking have something else in common other than the PTO running, according to your post(s) your son was operating the unit each time the seals started leaking.


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/144079-getting-screwed-warranty.html

 

[Jaybr]

The only thing in common with this time and last was the PTO was running both times.

I beleive the seals leaking have something else in common other than the PTO running, according to your post(s) your son was operating the unit each time the seals started leaking.


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/144079-getting-screwed-warranty.html

This is true, but my son is 20 and has been operating a tractor since he was 13 or 14. He has been riding and racing ATV's since he was 10 and does all his own mechanic work on them. He has installed suspension lifts on multiple trucks, does all his own maintenance on his vehicles and sometimes mine, etc, etc.

My point is he is not a kid and knows his way around machinery. Running a bush hog is nothing new to him. He is also fully aware of the situation with Kioti and the last pump, and what they blamed it on.

 

[dfkrug]

...but I'm thinking maybe the relief valve is not working? Maybe something in the power steering is causing excessive pressure? It did blow a power steering line last year, and I didn't use it much since replacing until April when the first pump problem appeared.

The only thing in common with this time and last was the PTO was running both times.

QUOTE]

JAYBR:
I just looked at that old thread. Wow, I missed that one.

I did not see it mentioned anywhere that the mechanic did a system
pressure test. The RV pressure is supposed to be 2500psi....you could
very well be set too high or the RV has been damaged.

Your hyd system can go to relief if ANY hyd system is maxed out....this
means your steering is held at the stops, or the FEL valve is held on past
when the cyls go to the end of their travel, or if your detented remote is
'on' with no place for the oil to go, or if your 3-pt position control it at the
top of its range and held there, or if a power beyond loop with QDs has an
unseated QD. When your system goes to relief, you have MINUTES, not
seconds before the oil overheats. AND a lot of noise from the RV. AND
a straining engine. Your pump should handle this pressure/volume demand
without damage for those minutes. If someone uses your tractor for
several minutes with all these warning signs, that IS a problem.

It makes no sense that your mechanic would not think about these
possible causes before throwing parts at this problem.

 

[Baranx4]

I'm sorry to hear about your problem again.

I have a DK series with a second set of rear remotes whick are dealer installed. I've noticed that my leg, calf, will hit the inner remote control when using the foot throttle if I sit in certain positions, usually when brush hogging. Of course it's the control that locks itself. Is it possible that he's bumping it? I know that I do when the ground is bumpy and uneven. It's just a thought. Good luck with the issue, I'm sure the part has a warranty.

 

[Jaybr]

I'm sorry to hear about your problem again.

I have a DK series with a second set of rear remotes whick are dealer installed. I've noticed that my leg, calf, will hit the inner remote control when using the foot throttle if I sit in certain positions, usually when brush hogging. Of course it's the control that locks itself. Is it possible that he's bumping it? I know that I do when the ground is bumpy and uneven. It's just a thought. Good luck with the issue, I'm sure the part has a warranty.

I don't think bumping it would be possible, the lever is on the right side between the seat and 3pt lever.

They picked the tractor up Thursday, haven't heard anything yet.

 

[MichiganIron]

We have seen similar problems caused by the position control on the 3-point. Depending on how the top link is configured on the brush cutter, it may be posible to raise the position control beyond the point that the top link will allow the arms to lift. This causes the hydraulic system to "dead head" as it continuously tries to raise the arms. This is a more difficult situation to recognize than the rear remote dead head, and will overheat and fail the pump seals. Any 3-point attachment can cause the problem if the top link isn't configured to allow a full range of movement on the 3-point.

Is it possible that you had the same deck configured the same way the last time you had this issue?

 

[Jaybr]

The mower has a swivel joint where the top link connects, I expect that would eliminate such problems. This particular time he was only mowing for about 20 minutes, most of that time the mower would have been down.

The last time the leak occured we had a wood chipper on the 3pt and it was lowered sitting on the ground for all operation.

 

[edameyer]

No comments for a while... I am a CK20 owner and, while I have not had any hyd pump problems, I have followed this thread and the previous one that got cut off, which I was disappointed about. I can appreciate that there might be a bit shyness after that.

Anyhow, from what I can understand following evrything in these threads, it seems that a real problem surfaced and that Kioti's position is that hyd pump problems are no longer guaranteed if you have their remotes, which I do. This does not seem reasonable to me!

I don't feel this has been about 'dealer bashing' or anything of the like, but more about Kioti standing behind their equipment.

Would love to hear more...

 

[Jaybr]

Sorry, forgot to follow up.

Dealer picked the tractor up on Thursday after the incendent, tractor was sitting in the driveway last Monday when I got home. I had to call the dealer to find out what they found, and they said it was a dry, cracked O ring in one of the fittings that attach to the pump. They fixed it for free with no hassles, but this problem did nothing to redeem me on the original issue.

My concern is all of the other O rings in the system. If the oil got so hot it cooked the O rings in the pump, logic would lead me to think it could have cooked all the O rings in the hydraulic system and this was the first to start leaking.