I am in the process of buiding a log splitter and have a hydraulic vane pump. The pump was manufactured by Borg-Warner Wooster Division and has the numbers P319AH21 L01 dated 8/72. I am trying to determine what RPM to spin this pump at but cannot find any information on Wooster pumps. The pump is oval shaped about the size of a big alternator. Any help is appreciated
Hydraulic Pump RPM
- Thread starter 28buick
- Start date
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art
Super Member
Most pumps for wood splitters run direct thru lovejoy couplers so they would spin at roughly 3200 rpm.
Deerlope
Veteran Member
Your vane pump will not produce enough pressure for a log splitter that is using a 4" dia. cyl. Also depending on the GPM of the pump you may not have enough HP. Tell us a little about you design. I have used to good results a 2 stage Barnes gear pump with a 4' dia. cyl. Northern tool catalog has some good info on building splitters.
The splitter is a collection of parts someone assembled 10 years ago to make this project. The piston appears to be from a front end loader or somthing similar. Its 4 feet in length with about a 3 inch ram. 1 1/2 inch dia. pins attached the cylinder to the bucket. At this time I have both 6 and 12 hp flathead gas engines to drive the pump. I don't have the pump in front of me but the inlet and outlet ports on the pump seem to be about an 1 1/2 inch dia. thread with the inlet a litter larger than the outlet. I don't really care if the splitter operates slow. Even if it takes the same amount of time as hand splitting its easier that swinging a maul.
Deerlope
Veteran Member
It takes 2500 psi on a 4"dia cyl. to produce a splitter with 20 tons of force. your pump will produce a lot of volume but not the high pressure needed to power a splitter. Whtaever you do just make sure that your control valve has a relief valve in it, so that something will not blow apart. Don't get hurt.
Villengineer
Gold Member
Actually, 2500 psi really isn't outside the range of vane pumps. I used to design hydraulic systems using vane pumps that operated at 3000 psi all the time. The pressure capability of the pump in this case will be dependent on the pump itself, not the type. Chances are if the pump is really old that it will have a lot of slip and won't produce pressure due to "blow-by".
A relief valve is a must on any hydraulic system, no matter the type or operating pressure. By the way at 2500 psi it shouldn't require a 4" cylinder (at 2500 psi that's 31,416 lbf) to split wood.
A relief valve is a must on any hydraulic system, no matter the type or operating pressure. By the way at 2500 psi it shouldn't require a 4" cylinder (at 2500 psi that's 31,416 lbf) to split wood.
L3710GV
Bronze Member
Sounds like you have the wrong pump for a splitter, The pumps that northern hydraulics sells are 2 stage made just for splitters-the ist stage moves high volume (this moves cylinder fast up & down) then the second stage kicks in as the pressure rises to finish the splitting cycle(low volume high pressure) end result is a fast splitting cycle.
Deerlope
Veteran Member
I am not trying to start a lenghty debut but this is how I design mine. A 4"dia cyl has an area of 12.566x 2500 psi=31,415 just a little over 15 ton. you get that wedge into some good knotty sugar maple and it is not enough or better yet try some elm. we split hard wood here and I personally do about 60 face cords a year for the outdoor furance and sugarhouse. I been doing fire wood for 30 years now. before the hyd splitter I did 35 face cord with a double bit axe.
Villengineer
Gold Member
You were right, I was wrong. I should have researched it more before I opened my pie hole. It's been awhile since I split wood and I didn't recall the cylinder being that large. But it looks like that 4" is actually on the smaller end of splitters. No wonder they're kind of $, 4" bore is actually a relatively large cylinder.
DocHeb
Veteran Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( we split hard wood here and I personally do about 60 face cords a year )</font>
The court will now recognize Deerlope as an expert in the area of "firewood" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Now, my first question: Why does wood have to be split? Are there other considerations other than the wood being able to physically fit into the woodstove?
The court will now recognize Deerlope as an expert in the area of "firewood" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Now, my first question: Why does wood have to be split? Are there other considerations other than the wood being able to physically fit into the woodstove?
Deerlope
Veteran Member
Split wood seasons or drys better cause the air can get to the core. As for why we spilt it well I am 62 and even when I was younger I had trouble picking up a hard maple block that was 18" long and 30" in dia. Plus they are also hard to stack to a height of 6' or higher, also my out door furance door is only 21x21". Then there is the wife and she don't like them big blocks neither. Also no need to recognize me for anything cause there are a lot of people who has split just as much as me and more.
SPIKER
Elite Member
doc heb:
there are several reasons to split,
1. to fit wood into stove.
2. to make stacking easy.
3. so when stacking the wood will have less space between wood pieces and less likely to tip.
4. so wood dries better.
to give us an excuse to have some other hunk of equipment around to play with! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
there are several reasons to split,
1. to fit wood into stove.
2. to make stacking easy.
3. so when stacking the wood will have less space between wood pieces and less likely to tip.
4. so wood dries better.
to give us an excuse to have some other hunk of equipment around to play with! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Deerlope
Veteran Member
Doc
you really should get a fire place or pit, then think of all the extra toys that you could buy.LOL
you really should get a fire place or pit, then think of all the extra toys that you could buy.LOL
Deerlope
Veteran Member
28buick,
I know that we got a little off the question that you asked but 3200 to 3600 RPM's is the norm. anymore questions just asked everyone one is here to help even if we do wander a little.
I know that we got a little off the question that you asked but 3200 to 3600 RPM's is the norm. anymore questions just asked everyone one is here to help even if we do wander a little.
L3710GV
Bronze Member
5. It burns hotter and with less smoke
Tonnage is about 15 ton on a tractor hydraulic system because pressure on most compacts is 2500lb or less, self powered ones with the two stage pump put out 20-22 ton on the same 4" cylinder because of the higher pressure out of the pump, splitting cycle is faster also because of the high volume section of pump. I built a splitter from scratch for my tractor and it works well but a bit slow moving ram up or down for the next log, and at 15 tons it will hit relief pressure on big side branches or crotches but it will usually make it thru if i keep trying. I run it on a kubota L3710 with 2450psi and about 7gpm flow
Tonnage is about 15 ton on a tractor hydraulic system because pressure on most compacts is 2500lb or less, self powered ones with the two stage pump put out 20-22 ton on the same 4" cylinder because of the higher pressure out of the pump, splitting cycle is faster also because of the high volume section of pump. I built a splitter from scratch for my tractor and it works well but a bit slow moving ram up or down for the next log, and at 15 tons it will hit relief pressure on big side branches or crotches but it will usually make it thru if i keep trying. I run it on a kubota L3710 with 2450psi and about 7gpm flow
Deerlope
Veteran Member
I build my splitter also, 13GPM Barnes 2 stage pump,4"diaX24" tie rod cyl, 26GPM control valve,8HP B&S engine, 8" "H" beam, hoes,wheels&mics pieces cost me about 800 bucks.
Youare
Platinum Member
This pump sounds similar to pumps made by Vickers for powering applications which require higher GPM's. I would guess this pump would have been coupled to a large electric motor turning at either 1100 RPM or 1725.
I rebuilt a couple of these vane type pumps that were used on presses for vulcanizing rubber. The pressure relief was set around 1,800 PSI. The cylinder was 12" in diameter which resulted in 100 tons of pressure at the end of the cylinder. That would make some wood splitter except would would have to have a 55 gallon or better hydraulic tank.
The two stage pumps already mentioned provide the speed and the pressure for using 4" cylinders. If you want to increase the splitting pressure use a larger diameter cylinder, cycle speed will be reduced a little. Going form a 4" diameter cylinder to a 6" diameter will double the splitting force at 2500 PSI.
I still like the looks of the Super Split rack and pinion splitter.
Super Split
Randy
I rebuilt a couple of these vane type pumps that were used on presses for vulcanizing rubber. The pressure relief was set around 1,800 PSI. The cylinder was 12" in diameter which resulted in 100 tons of pressure at the end of the cylinder. That would make some wood splitter except would would have to have a 55 gallon or better hydraulic tank.
The two stage pumps already mentioned provide the speed and the pressure for using 4" cylinders. If you want to increase the splitting pressure use a larger diameter cylinder, cycle speed will be reduced a little. Going form a 4" diameter cylinder to a 6" diameter will double the splitting force at 2500 PSI.
I still like the looks of the Super Split rack and pinion splitter.
Super Split
Randy
