Hydraulic oil/fluid

ERNIEB · Dec 29, 2000

In a past thread ChuckP mentioned that there is a difference between hydraulic oil and hydraulic fluid. OK, I can accept that. But, is there some kind of standard nomenclature, or breakdown of the different oils/fluids? My NH uses hydraulic oil labeled as 134. In the dump truck I've been using something labeled CUI AW 46. Kubota owners talk about UDT. I've seen 5 gallon containers labeled tractor hydraulic and trasmission oil, and on the back a chart showing the makes it can be used in. To farther confuse the issue, I understand brake fluid and automatic transmission fluid are really hydraulic oils. I have seen ATF being used in Bobcats with no ill effect. Short term anyway. I've searched the web and have come up empty handed. Where are they getting these designations from? Are they just arbitrary?

Ernie
"I deem it necessary for Texas to be ready to meat an army of eight or ten thousand strong in May next." Eli Mercer (in a letter to Henry Smith Dec,1835)

TomG · Dec 30, 2000

It might be handy if oil meant something petroleum based and fluid meant a synthetic, but I doubt manufacturers keep things that simple. I think the label on my NH pail says oil while an equivalent AGCO product I use says fluid. Both are multi-season petroleum based oils. The terms oil and fluid seem to be used interchangeably.

Anonymous Poster · Dec 31, 2000

Ernie, My JD HST owners manuel states DO NOT USE ENGINE OIL, DO NOT USE Type F or RED AUTOMATIC FLUID. It also states, IN CERTAIN GEOGRAPHICAL AREAS MAY REQUIRE ALTERNATE LUBICANTS AND SYNTHETIC LUBRICANTS CAN BE USED IF THEY MEET PERFORMANCE SPECS. I cannot answer why they do not want a person using auto trans fluid. Reason for the caps is easier for you to see not shouting. good luck gary

ERNIEB · Dec 31, 2000

Here is what I'm thinking. Hydraulic/transmission oil is all 30wt oil. Each company seems to have their own designation with the only difference being, possibly, additives. So, How important are the additives? Here is an amsoil chart.
Case International - MS-1207, HYTRAN
Caterpillar - TO-2, TO-3
Deutz-Allis - All
Ford - M2C41-B, M2C134-D, M2C86-B
Hesston/Fiat - All
John Deere - Quatrol®, J20C, J20D, J14C
Kubota, UDT - All
Landini - All
Massey-Ferguson - M1127-B, M1129-A, M1135 and M1141 (also known as Permatran III®)
Steiger - All
Versatile - All
I may be drawing the wrong conclusion, but it seems to me that if this one product can replace all those other, than additives play only a small part. In other words, a Kubota owner could use JD20C, and the world and his tractor would not come to an end. It's not to far of a stretch than to go to ATF.
Ah, but considering what we pay for this machinery, who would be willing to try. Do you suppose the manufacturers know that?

Ernie
"Do not be uneasy about me, I am among friends"
David Crockett 1836 (in a letter to his family)

GaryA · Dec 31, 2000

Ernie, I think you have hit the nail on the head, dealers make good money selling oil and fluids as they buy them cheap from oil companies. I think it all has to meet a certain standard and one is probably just as good as another as long as it is kept clean. I personally have used Amsoil in all of my over 20 units for the better part of 20 years. I have aircraft engines with oil temp gauges in them and notice 30 degree cooler oil temps with Amsoil, I would probably see that with any synthetic but have not tried anyother. I just feel it is an extra safety margin as it withstands 500 degrees hotter temps (not that you will ever maybe run that high but it could happen) So I guess what I say just keep your oil clean whatever you use and you should be ok.When I put synthetic in my hydraulics they worked much smoother, especially when cold as we have had it -20 this year already. good luck gary

MChalkley · Jan 1, 2001

Ernie - One thing, though, regarding the comparisons: Comparing synthetics and petroleum products in this way is the proverbial "apples and oranges" comparison. One of the advantages of synthetics is that they're not nearly as dependent upon additives to arrive at the desired properties. So, while they're necessary for both types of lubricants, additives enhance the performance of synthetics, but they define the performance of petroleum products.

MarkC

jimmoore · Jan 1, 2001

GaryA, Welcome to tractorbynet. I see that was your first post. So let me be the first to welcome you aboard!! jim

GaryA · Jan 1, 2001

Jim, Thanks for the welcome, I have been posting for a month or so under the user name that I got when I sighned up which was FGUvzy, I don't know why I got that? So I redid it as it may have not been done right. Nice to be able to talk to people that share the same interests. gary

ERNIEB · Jan 8, 2001

MarkC, I've been giving your post some thought. OK, maybe it's not a fair comparison. Let me try to go another way then. Awhile back I decided to change the hydraulic oil in my old 8N. I went to the Ford/NH dealer to be sure I got the right stuff. They gave me NH134. What do you suppose they recommend for the NAA/Jubilee. NH134? And what is recommended for my TC29D? NH134. I'm sure you see my question, but I'll state it for the record. How is it one oil suits the needs of these three different systems? Especially if one accepts your statement that additives "define" the performance of petroleum products. Why isn't there an alternative defined to that one particular system?

Ernie
"You can plainly see that the Alamo was never built by a military people for a fortress."
Green Jameson, Jan 1836 (in a letter to Sam Houston)

MChalkley · Jan 8, 2001

Ernie - I'm not sure I understand the question, but I can answer the question I think you asked this way: All three tractors are designed to operate on plain old 30w tractor hydraulic oil. All petroleum "plain old 30w tractor hydraulic oils" are designed (and have the proper addititives to ensure) that they meet the basic specifications for same.

On the other hand, some manufacturers, and particularly those with hydrostatic transmissions, don't feel that "plain old 30w tractor hydraulic oil" is sufficient for their transmissions, so they spec something else. In this case, "plain old 30w synthetic tractor hydraulic oil" usually meets the tougher standards. Occasionally, a different weight oil is required, though, in which case "plain old 30w tractor hydraulic oil" (petroleum or synthetic) won't work.

I have a feeling that I didn't answer your question, though, because I don't see that there's any bearing on the issues of additives, so feel free to beat me over the head with, since I didn't get it the first time - I'm often a little dense. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

MarkC