Hydraulic hose question

[ernemats]

I have a log splitter I run off my tractor and it runs fine at splitting the logs. Right now the hydraulic hoses are a little short for running off my other tractor , so I got 2 hoses to add on to the existing hoses with hydraulic quick attach fittings. The problem with the extended hoses is it will not move the ram with enough force to split the logs. I believe having the extra hose with quick attach fittings on is not leaving enough fluid through to create the pressure to move the hydraulic cylinder ram. Any ideas?

 

[lostcreekranch]

Probably on of your QD's not seated correctly? Why not just get longer hoses and get rid of the extra QD's?

 

[RNeumann]

A typical tractor holds 7+ gallons of hydraulic fluid. It's had to believe adding a little hose was the tipping point. After opening the hydraulic system it's always good to make sure the air is removed. Try to cycle the ram, full open to full close, several times. I've seen posts that also suggest changing the position of the ram (vertical from horizontal etc). I've never personally had the need to do that but it may be needed.
Another somewhat common problem is debris in the QC. Try eliminating those from the equation and see what you get.

Beyond that, some of the other folks on here may have more knowledge and ideas.

 

[/pine]

FWIW...I run my splitter with 20' 5/8" hoses all 3/4" QD's to the machine and valve...machine puts out 9 gpm..I usually run about 1/2 throttle...The hoses are heavy when filled but no issues with the QD's

What size hose and QD's are you using?...

 

[ernemats]

My one tractor uses 1/2 inch hose fittings and the other uses 3/4 inch hose fittings. I would like to be able to use either tractor on the splitter. The hydraulic cylinder has a 3/4 inch inlet hose with a 1/2 inch quick attach fitting and the out hose is a 1/2 inch with a half inch quick attach fitting. On the hose I am adding one end has 3/4 inch fittings and the other end is 1/2 inch fittings both ends quick attach.

 

[Leejohn]

It still should build up pressure, flow is for speed.

 

[Texasmark]

I have a log splitter I run off my tractor and it runs fine at splitting the logs. Right now the hydraulic hoses are a little short for running off my other tractor , so I got 2 hoses to add on to the existing hoses with hydraulic quick attach fittings. The problem with the extended hoses is it will not move the ram with enough force to split the logs. I believe having the extra hose with quick attach fittings on is not leaving enough fluid through to create the pressure to move the hydraulic cylinder ram. Any ideas?

The extra hose and restriction will just slow the process, not stop it; not change your ultimate "Force" applied to the log. Force is area of the piston x psig applied to that area. Your sump should be large enough to run 10' of hose and a 4x24 cylinder and a lot more if you have it filled to the full mark. I used to run mine off my 2000 all the time till I built a separate pump out of an old lawn mower.

 

[pat32rf]

The extra hose and restriction will just slow the process, not stop it; not change your ultimate "Force" applied to the log. Force is area of the piston x psig applied to that area. Your sump should be large enough to run 10' of hose and a 4x24 cylinder and a lot more if you have it filled to the full mark. I used to run mine off my 2000 all the time till I built a separate pump out of an old lawn mower.

Could we see some pictures of that lawn mower? Been wanting to build a portable power source for years so I didn't tie up my tractor

 

[ernemats]

Tried again today to run the log splitter off my second tractor with the extra hoses connected , cycled it 6 times very slow moving the cylinder then put a log in to try to split the ram would stop as soon as it made contact with the log. I checked the hydraulic fluid and it was good and no leaks on the hose connections. I then hooked it up to my other tractor without the 2 extra hoses and it ran fine and I split about a dozen logs. Will have to rethink the extra hoses.

 

[olPete]

A typical tractor holds 7+ gallons of hydraulic fluid. It's had to believe adding a little hose was the tipping point. After opening the hydraulic system it's always good to make sure the air is removed. Try to cycle the ram, full open to full close, several times. I've seen posts that also suggest changing the position of the ram (vertical from horizontal etc). I've never personally had the need to do that but it may be needed.
Another somewhat common problem is debris in the QC. Try eliminating those from the equation and see what you get.

Beyond that, some of the other folks on here may have more knowledge and ideas.

Good advice. I'd suggest the elimination of those fittings in the middle of the hoses would help if not eliminate the problem. Suspect it's a problem with the poppets in the quick connects, not engaging each other properly. Assuming the oil is constantly flowing through the system, and there is a valve being used at the splitter to work the cylinder.
Just use a couple of threaded female joiners to connect them all together. Proper hydraulic ones though, don't ever use ones for water as they aren't designed for use at hydraulic system pressures.
I was thinking that maybe there's an air issue in the ram but if removing the extra hose has restored operation,then that's out.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I have a log splitter I run off my tractor and it runs fine at splitting the logs. Right now the hydraulic hoses are a little short for running off my other tractor , so I got 2 hoses to add on to the existing hoses with hydraulic quick attach fittings. The problem with the extended hoses is it will not move the ram with enough force to split the logs. I believe having the extra hose with quick attach fittings on is not leaving enough fluid through to create the pressure to move the hydraulic cylinder ram. Any ideas?

I read all the posts and have this idea: Check out all your QCs. Many look alike but do not mate up with each other if different brands or styles. I am sure the center poppet is not pushing open the shut off feature. Parker is a common known brand. There are a lot of knock-offs that claim to be compatible but I have found out, not always true. Match brand and part numbers all the same for best results. I have had problems with TS's Parker knock-offs as an example and strangely the cost more than the real thing.

Ron

 

[olPete]

I read all the posts and have this idea: Check out all your QCs. Many look alike but do not mate up with each other if different brands or styles. I am sure the center poppet is not pushing open the shut off feature. Parker is a common known brand. There are a lot of knock-offs that claim to be compatible but I have found out, not always true. Match brand and part numbers all the same for best results. I have had problems with TS's Parker knock-offs as an example and strangely the cost more than the real thing.

Ron

Yes!!^^^^^

 

[ernemats]

I have been looking on ebay for 3/4 inch hoses and they are almost all rated for 2,250 psi working pressure, is that enough for a log splitter? The fittings are all Faster quick attach.

 

[lostcreekranch]

1/2" hoses will do anything you need. 3/4" would be IMHO overkill for a log splitter. I have 1/2" hoses on mine and cycle time is very good.

You just need to get rid of all the extra QD's you have now. Make sure that the QD's on hoses match your tractors. Do both tractors have same type QD's on the remotes? This is key.

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/v/vspfiles/downloadables/qd_sizechart.pdf

 

[ernemats]

Both tractors have Faster fittings , one has 1/2 inch and the other has 3/4 inch fittings. The splitter has 3/4 inch hose on the inlet and 1/2 inch on the outlet side of the valve.

 

[Whatswrong]

I don't own a wood splitter and probably never will but I'm curious why the 3/4 in on the high pressure side ,I would think a fast return to push would be more valuable, whatever the relief is set to is all the pressure you get through 1/2 or 3/4 in. I can't imagine the rate of flow would even be noticed because the pump flow is predetermined .
To the original dilemma I would be tempted to put on new long hoses and get QC adaptors to go from 1/2 to 3/4 in. in order to switch between tractors ,I presume there is such a thing just like switching between brands of QC. . But just me thinking.

 

[Ford850]

Have you used the remotes on this other tractor before? The extra hoses, size of hoses, and extra fittings should not matter. As long as the couplers are definitely the same style, and the new hoses are not damaged, then it should work fine. That's why I ask if you are sure the tractor is fine and has worked for other implements.

 

[Texasmark]

Could we see some pictures of that lawn mower? Been wanting to build a portable power source for years so I didn't tie up my tractor

Yes. I have posted before and they are here in my computer. I have to go to town but when I return I'll dig them out and post.

What happened was years ago I started splitting wood with my 2000 Ford tractor (30ish HP). Hyd pump was like 7 gpm and 2000 psi popoff, and by the time you put on a cylinder with any size to it and dealt with the 12' ｽ" hoses, it took all day and then some to do the wood pile.

I had an old Scotts 15 hp riding mower I wasn't using for anything. I stripped it down and installed a 2 stage pump system with parts purchased from Northern Tool and hooked it to my 4 x 24" cylinder with 6' ｽ" hoses. The pump I selected was their 16 gpm 2 stage pump requiring about 7 hp so my 15 hp Kohler single cylinder was more than enough. I'm running around 7-8 seconds on the unloaded cycle time, 7 in and 8 out with the cylinder stated. Smaller area cylinder would cycle faster but force is area x pressure applied to the area and obviously area is a governing element of time....flow rate x volume to fill.

On the 2 stage pump, if you are new to 2 stage pumps (as I was) the cylinder runs at high speed with a low pressure as long as there is no resistance. As soon as the cylinder pushes the log against the wedge blade, the movement stops for a split second and the pressure shoots up.

Once pressure builds and passes the low-high pressure setting, the speed slows to a creep but the pump pressure increases to the rated value and forces your wood onto the blade with the force of "area of the piston x psi of the pump". As soon as the log splits and the resistance is lowered where the pressure drops below the high pressure kick in, the speed picks back up again and your log is ejected.

So for a 4" piston and a 2000 psi pump, your force is [(4/2) squared x 3.14] x 2000 = 25k lbs of force. A 5" cylinder would be 40k lbs of force with the speed slowed by the ratio of the areas of the cylinder differences. For me, with the right cutter (pictures included) 4" gives a good combination of speed and pressure.

The adaption was a lot of fun and worked flawlessly. Since the picture was taken, I have replaced the high pressure circuit "water pipe" fittings with suitable high pressure fittings from TSC. Had no problems with the former, but since I sit right next to the mower to get to the control lever mounted on the frame, I didn't want a hose splitting and spewing hot fluid on me.

 

[Texasmark]

Yes. I have posted before and they are here in my computer. I have to go to town but when I return I'll dig them out and post.

What happened was years ago I started splitting wood with my 2000 Ford tractor (30ish HP). Hyd pump was like 7 gpm and 2000 psi popoff, and by the time you put on a cylinder with any size to it and dealt with the 12' ｽ" hoses, it took all day and then some to do the wood pile.

I had an old Scotts 15 hp riding mower I wasn't using for anything. I stripped it down and installed a 2 stage pump system with parts purchased from Northern Tool and hooked it to my 4 x 24" cylinder with 6' ｽ" hoses. The pump I selected was their 16 gpm 2 stage pump requiring about 7 hp so my 15 hp Kohler single cylinder was more than enough. I'm running around 7-8 seconds on the unloaded cycle time, 7 in and 8 out with the cylinder stated. Smaller area cylinder would cycle faster but force is area x pressure applied to the area and obviously area is a governing element of time....flow rate x volume to fill.

On the 2 stage pump, if you are new to 2 stage pumps (as I was) the cylinder runs at high speed with a low pressure as long as there is no resistance. As soon as the cylinder pushes the log against the wedge blade, the movement stops for a split second and the pressure shoots up.

Once pressure builds and passes the low-high pressure setting, the speed slows to a creep but the pump pressure increases to the rated value and forces your wood onto the blade with the force of "area of the piston x psi of the pump". As soon as the log splits and the resistance is lowered where the pressure drops below the high pressure kick in, the speed picks back up again and your log is ejected.

So for a 4" piston and a 2000 psi pump, your force is [(4/2) squared x 3.14] x 2000 = 25k lbs of force. A 5" cylinder would be 40k lbs of force with the speed slowed by the ratio of the areas of the cylinder differences. For me, with the right cutter (pictures included) 4" gives a good combination of speed and pressure.

The adaption was a lot of fun and worked flawlessly. Since the picture was taken, I have replaced the high pressure circuit "water pipe" fittings with suitable high pressure fittings from TSC. Had no problems with the former, but since I sit right next to the mower to get to the control lever mounted on the frame, I didn't want a hose splitting and spewing hot fluid on me.

Here are the pics I promised. The pic with the ruler is the splitter blade. It started with a single piece of steel, like you get when you buy one and evolved into the wedge, set back slightly from the leading edge to allow the blade to get into the log so that you have something to push apart. Took 4 mods to get it right but it is.

The pump mounts under the unit due to the direction of rotation of the engine. I preferred to have it on the top for better ground clearance but that didn't happen. The Lovejoy connections are necessary as is the mounting bracket as the pump can't stand any lateral pressure like would happen with the belt in the pulley attached. The mounting takes the lateral stress, not the pump shaft.

 

[joefromga]

Very cool