fish_wisperer
Banned
has anyone ever tried installing a hydrolic accumulator on a tractor? especially with a front end loader.
hyd accumulator
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notamustang
Gold Member
Having ridden in trucks with juice, aka hydraulics I dont know how there would be any benificial effects in fact detramental events would occur.
The accumulator is designed to act as a spring,(suppling fluid expansion ie compresion) if you ran it up to say 1500# charge on the back end (good luck with that) it might show some benefit on a SCUT but I dont know. Uncontrolled movement of the implaments just does not seem like a good idea, thats why they have float valves. Think about a heavy load in your FEL, your driving along with a full load and you have it low and hit a big bump and the accumulator kicks in and your bucket dumps and you now come to a complete stop and are prying the steering wheel out of your chest.
How were you thinking of using them?
The accumulator is designed to act as a spring,(suppling fluid expansion ie compresion) if you ran it up to say 1500# charge on the back end (good luck with that) it might show some benefit on a SCUT but I dont know. Uncontrolled movement of the implaments just does not seem like a good idea, thats why they have float valves. Think about a heavy load in your FEL, your driving along with a full load and you have it low and hit a big bump and the accumulator kicks in and your bucket dumps and you now come to a complete stop and are prying the steering wheel out of your chest.
How were you thinking of using them?
OP
fish_wisperer
Banned
first of all i know very little about tractors, but i work on aircraft so i am familiar with accumulators. i believe these pressure up to 3000 psi and suppliment the system when demand is high. i just thought it would be handy like if you run into a dirt pile let off the gas maybe your bucket would roll faster without throttling up, or if your tractor is parked in the garage and you want to move the loader to get to another greese fitting you wouldnt have to start the engine and fume up the place. i was just curious if anyone ever tried it.
slowzuki
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Kubota in Canada fit almost all the M series with accumulators on the loader boom circuit for carrying round bales. It makes the ride much smoother and lets the laoder spring over bumps.
PineRidge
Super Member
<font color="blue"> or if your tractor is parked in the garage and you want to move the loader to get to another greese fitting you wouldnt have to start the engine </font>
Something about the hydraulics being live without the engine running sounds to me like an accident looking for a place to happen. Especially if you have children, you know the ones that like to move all control surfaces out of curiosity.
Something about the hydraulics being live without the engine running sounds to me like an accident looking for a place to happen. Especially if you have children, you know the ones that like to move all control surfaces out of curiosity.
GATC35
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I have worked with accumulators on commercial jet airliners for 25 years. An accumulator large enough to move you FEL with the engine shut down would be the size of a 55 gal barrel. As previously stated accumulators work with very high "precharge" pressures that can be between 2000 and 3000 psi. I doubt most folks would have the capability to charge such a device. The hoses, fittings, regulators. etc must be special hight pressure units. They are extremely expensive. Also keep in mind a accumulator precharged to 3000 psi is like having a bomb attached to your tractor. The wrong type impact in the wrong place could be a diaster.
I see no advantage to having an accumulator on a SCUT or CUT. Just my .02 cents worth....
I see no advantage to having an accumulator on a SCUT or CUT. Just my .02 cents worth....
OP
fish_wisperer
Banned
yeah it could be kinda dangerous, plus you might need another resivor. of course you could discharge it by going to float position. i think just enough volume to fill fel cylinders one time would be enough, maybe 5 gallons. i might do an experiment one of these days.
Taylortractornut
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I used to run a Samsung Loader for a friends gravel pit when i wasnt running an excavator. It had a diverter valve that put the fluid from the loader into an accumulator for lond sidtance traveling over bumpy terrain like going acroos the yard with a load or around a trench backfilling it where you have to travel a distance. Anyone who has run a large rubber tired loader knows they tend to bounce. This made the machine ride supper smooth at highspeeds. and the bucket 2 feet off the ground. It was only attached to the lift cylinders. It hasd to be disengaged while loading the bucket or in a high duty cycle. ALot of ecvavbors use this as a way to boost digging and lifting capacity to. You have a power button on the top of the right joystick and when needed you push it and for about 10 seconds shes a bad stout mammy jammy. Ive had a little experience messing with hydraulic starters on a friends 2 old Army surplus loaders. They had a hydraulic motor with a bendix on the end that went where the starter originally went. They had a spare tank and a nitrogen powered accumulatr and went to the starter. When you wanted to start it just pull a valve. I think one charger would start it 5 times most days. On real cold ones just hold it till it started. The miliary supposedly had these set up for remote jungle operation where tropical weather might wreak havo on the electrical coonections of a master key and ignition switch. Before you shut it off in the evening you pulled another lever to recharge the accumulator to restart it the next morning. If you didnt you had a 2stage hand pump not fun at all. I fixed a fitting on to the line where I could use his farmtractor to charge the accumulator instead of pumping. The started did a good job when repriming the machine just uncoonect it and hoolk to the tractor to keep it spinning.
OP
fish_wisperer
Banned
that sounds pretty cool.. i was thinking about a full size tractor, not a compact, and really.... charging an accumulator to 1500 pounds is not a big deal and the equitment is about the same stuff as a cutting torch set up. the regulator would cost a little but thats about it. i think if it were set up as a hydrolic assist like on large airplanes, not as a shock absorber, it would greatly improve performance, i think?
gbirky
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Some big rigs have air starters. They use air from the same compressed air tanks that are used for air brakes. All trucks have an engine driven compressor to fill the tanks. If the tanks are depressurized, you can hook up air from the tires to run the starter, you just have to refill the tires once the engine is started and the tanks are pressurized. We use air starters at work to start engines in test rigs.
Taylortractornut
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My favorite thing to do to an air start truck is to remove the air deflector and muffler off the starter exhaust of the truck.(Yes Im a Redneck) Its a safety feature then. Makes every one turn and look and make sure they arent in front of that truck lol. I usually put a valve stem on them to air them up if they leak till I can get the tanks sealed off on them. Most air start trucks here have a seperat air tank with checkvalves to keep them from gettin low. My proble with them is when one runs out or filters stop up ubleeding them you have to have another truck or mobile compressor.
n4msl
New member
My Kioti dealer informed me today that I will have to install an accumulator to cure a high frequency squealing that occurs somewhere in the hydostatic drive system. Apparently it's a factory fix for the DK40HST. I never thought about it having side effects.
Texan4Life
Gold Member
had this idea too, so I googled it and found this thread.
Some were pointing out that this isn't really feasible. I say that it is because, well its already been done... that is add an accumulator to give a hydraulic circuit (like cylinders) some "spring".
They have been on combines (for the feeder house cylinders which pick up the header) since the 60's (our old massey super 92 had one, I think it was a option or aftermarket add on at the time). and have seen them on caseih 1680 and 2388 combines for example. Pretty much all combines have had them as standard features for decades.
Now most new row crop tractors (or at least deere and caseih that know of) have active front suspensions to make a more comfortable ride in the field.
And the accumulators on these apps are the size of a watermelon or smaller
Would be cool to see someone do it.
food for thought
Some were pointing out that this isn't really feasible. I say that it is because, well its already been done... that is add an accumulator to give a hydraulic circuit (like cylinders) some "spring".
They have been on combines (for the feeder house cylinders which pick up the header) since the 60's (our old massey super 92 had one, I think it was a option or aftermarket add on at the time). and have seen them on caseih 1680 and 2388 combines for example. Pretty much all combines have had them as standard features for decades.
Now most new row crop tractors (or at least deere and caseih that know of) have active front suspensions to make a more comfortable ride in the field.
And the accumulators on these apps are the size of a watermelon or smaller
Would be cool to see someone do it.
food for thought
Zebrafive
Super Member
John Deere sells a Loader suspension kit that is just an accummulator, valve, hose and fittings to tie into the loader boom cylinder's head end. You charge the accummulator (once) with nitrogen based on the loads you expect to carry.
Zebrafive
Super Member
I think JD uses about 90 cubic inch capacity. Yes you will want a valve to shut it off for digging. A manual high pressure ball valve would work.
DaveOmak
Platinum Member
Technical Information :: Accumulators.com
This article outlines some of the many advantages accumulators provide whether they are hydraulic or pneumatic....
This article outlines some of the many advantages accumulators provide whether they are hydraulic or pneumatic....
Soundguy
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ford 6000 had an accumulator on the 3pt, allowing you to move the hitch with engine off. I heard the same stories of injury / damage.. glad I don't have one.. etc..
John47
Silver Member
Only ever heard of hydraulic accumulators on hydraulic starting circuits on underground vehicles. Contractor got killed with one when an end cap blew off and hit him in the head. Don't recall the pressure they charged up to, but one side was full hydraulic pressure, the other side was nitrogen.
EE_Bota
Elite Member
We use accumulators at work for various purposes. Usually, we are storing up oil to buffer demands to make sure enough capacity is available. For example, imagine that your pump provides enough flow on average, but not enough for the worst peak flows. An accumulator is handy for that, but that accumulator will be on the pump side of things, not on the work ports side of things.
In one case, we have huge cylinders designed to provide pressure to the product, but the product is bucking up and down, and we need the cylinders to move such that nearly constant pressure is maintained, while allowing for expansion of the product. This is a "smoothing" function. This may be on the pump side of some systems, and is on the pump side on our system, but for a loader, it would need to be on the work port side of things. (I can use that accumulated capacity for some actions other than smoothing, but that system is likely to be far more elaborate than a tractor system. I can do a regenerative "pop" of the regen valve to start the ram raise, but my control is elaborate compared to a tractor too.)
In a simple system such as most tractors, using an accumulator for capacity accumulation is likely only feasible in a closed center system.
It is hard for me to see how a person could ever use an accumulator on a tractor loader to get both smoothing and speed increases. Rather, it will be the other way round...if it is used for smoothing, it will slow the loader down...since that accumulator has to get charged along with the cylinder end being pumped up.
So, listen to others who know better, but I think smoothing is doable for sure, but costs speed, and is available for closed or open center systems.
Capacity accumulation is separately possible, but only practical for closed center systems since for open center, a person would need to add valving to dump the pump flow after accumulator charging is complete.
In one case, we have huge cylinders designed to provide pressure to the product, but the product is bucking up and down, and we need the cylinders to move such that nearly constant pressure is maintained, while allowing for expansion of the product. This is a "smoothing" function. This may be on the pump side of some systems, and is on the pump side on our system, but for a loader, it would need to be on the work port side of things. (I can use that accumulated capacity for some actions other than smoothing, but that system is likely to be far more elaborate than a tractor system. I can do a regenerative "pop" of the regen valve to start the ram raise, but my control is elaborate compared to a tractor too.)
In a simple system such as most tractors, using an accumulator for capacity accumulation is likely only feasible in a closed center system.
It is hard for me to see how a person could ever use an accumulator on a tractor loader to get both smoothing and speed increases. Rather, it will be the other way round...if it is used for smoothing, it will slow the loader down...since that accumulator has to get charged along with the cylinder end being pumped up.
So, listen to others who know better, but I think smoothing is doable for sure, but costs speed, and is available for closed or open center systems.
Capacity accumulation is separately possible, but only practical for closed center systems since for open center, a person would need to add valving to dump the pump flow after accumulator charging is complete.
