How to calculate how much fill is needed??

   / How to calculate how much fill is needed?? #1  

TerryinMD

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Performed some searches on the net and came up with a bunch of stuff that could not help!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I'm beginning to prepare an area to build a pole barn/shed/building - keep my stuff dry and a place to hide!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The area is sloped and has some rock on the edges of where I want to place the building. So, if you were to take a rectangle and slice it from the top of one corner and angle to the opposite corner you would get an idea of my problem. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

My ciphering is rusty and I need to be pointed in the right direction. I know where to get the fill and what I would like to do, but do not know how to do it!!!!.

Any help would be appreciated!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Terry
 
   / How to calculate how much fill is needed?? #2  
Terry,

A picture is worth a thousand word. Can you post a pic?
Not sure I understand the "rock on the edges".

Brian
 
   / How to calculate how much fill is needed?? #4  
Some straight math not taking into acount and jagged edges(rock edges?).

The area of a triangle would be 1/2 that of the rectangle. If the rectangle is 4x6 = 24 then the area of the triangle would be (4x6)/2=12.

The depth would work the same way.
Rectange 4Lx6Wx3D = 72, half that would be 36.

Now to calculate yards divide by 27 since there is 27 cubic feet in a cubic yard.

So in this example 36/27= 1.3333 yards
 
   / How to calculate how much fill is needed?? #5  
Then, since most fill is sold in tons, not yards, you have to convert that to tons. Assuming you're filling with topsoil, that weighs about 2400 lbs. per yard. Multiplied by 1.333 yards = 3200 lbs., or 1.6 tons. If you're using gravel, figure about 2700 lbs. per yard x 1.333 = 3600 lbs., or 1.8 tons.
 
   / How to calculate how much fill is needed??
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Thank you for the replies.... I just got back from a short trip and couldn't get any pictures this evening.

I thought about posting a picture when I originally posted. I'll get one posted either tomorrow evening or Saturday.

And yes, in our area they sell the fill by both tonage and cubic yards. The place I called quoted cubic yards. And when you think about it, it kinda makes sense having in cubic yards since you are filling an area. Plus the fill has some shale mixed in.

More later..

Terry
 
   / How to calculate how much fill is needed?? #7  
Terry,

I don't know of a SIMPLE formula to calculate the volume above a rectangle sloped at a compound angle. I doubt if there is one. And, you would have to measure the angles of slope in both directions. I do think you could get a close approximation with a transit, water level, or laser level. Also the sloped rectangle assumes that the four corners and all points in between are in the same (tilted) plane, which isn't likely. Doing actual measurements would not rely on that assumption as much. Let us know if you want to take some measurements and we can help with the math.

Also, when converting from volume to weight, make sure the density you use (lb/cubic yd) is for compacted soil and not "fluffy" soil. "Fluffy soil" would be the state of compaction in a dump truck or your FEL after scooping it out of the ground.

John

PS Besides the measurement methods mentioned above, you could run a level string around the perimeter, starting at ground level on the high corner and measure down from the string in various places.
 
   / How to calculate how much fill is needed?? #8  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Also, when converting from volume to weight, make sure the density you use (lb/cubic yd) is for compacted soil and not "fluffy" soil. "Fluffy soil" would be the state of compaction in a dump truck or your FEL after scooping it out of the ground. )</font>

The excavating company I work for, assumes that you need to truck in 20% more than calculated to allow for compaction of the fluffy fill. The number will vary depending on the type of fill.

Andy
 
   / How to calculate how much fill is needed?? #9  
How big an area do you need to calculate?

The engineering method to calculate cut and fill involves drawing cross sections. For a barn sized area, you may be able to do this by estimation, by eyballing and pacing a few points or using a five dollar hand level from Home Despot.

The hand level is a viewing device with a bubble, you look through the level and the bubble or a cross hair shows when you're looking at something at the same elevation as your eyeball. An old f(r)iend used to do one man survey for septic tanks by pacing and using and his pickup truck for a rod. E.g. If you sight on the bumper, your feet are 4 feet below the truck wheels, if you sight on the hood ... etc. It's probably good enough for what you want. You can calibrate your truck in about ten minutes.

Then draw up each cross section on graph paper. We usually exaggerate the vertical dimension 5:1 or 10:1 so we can actually draw something visible. Get the 10 squares to the inch paper. It makes the calculations and counting go easier. Figure your scale so you can more or less use up an 8-1/2 x 11 inch sheet of paper for each cross section.

Draw the existing grade and add your proposed grade to each cross section.

We generally do cross sections every 50 or 100 feet. For a little tiddly job 10 or 25 feet is not out of line. You won't need a million X-Sects like they do for a highway job. I guess you'll have 5 or 7 X-Sects; one on each end of the barn, one on each end of the fill, where it meets existing, and maybe one in the middle of the barn.

Calculate the area of one graph square. If it's 1 foot wide by 1/10 foot high, it's 0.1 sq ft.

Count the squares, between the existing and the proposed lines. If a square is more than half in, by eye, it's in. If it's less than half in, it's out. Use a colored pencil to put a dot in each square as you count it. Counting squares is mind grinding work, so it's easy to forget where you were. Don't ask me how I know this. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The volume between each pair of cross sections is the average of the two areas times the distance. L*(A1 + A2)/2 Add up the areas between the pairs of cross sections. Remember that the ends of the fill, where it tapers away to nothing, have a cross section with zero area on each end. You don't need to draw it, but you need to add it in. Those end pieces have a volume of L*A/2.

Convert to cubic yards. 1 CY = 27 CF.

Account for compaction. Fill on the truck will shrink something around 15%, when you place it and compact it.

Account for waste, losses, and errors. 5 - 15% depending on how confident you are in your numbers. It's not as bad as concrete; it's easier to lose two yards of dirt on site than two yards of concrete. But you hate to buy another truckload, and pay a minimum charge, because you were two yards short.

I've always bought fill by the yard; many operations don't have a scale. But it's easier to cheat you by the yard. How much dirt can you carry in a ten yard truck, anyway? We deal with that by surveying to get the numbers. You probably don't want to do that. Talk to your supplier. They'll know how many yards they can get out of a ton of dirt. In the end, you should plan on buying a truckload more than you thought you needed, and you'll never figure out where it went.

Be sure you compact the fill as it goes in. A heavy tractor or a bulldozer is nice for that, but you may want to rent a plate compactor or a walk-behind sheeps foot roller. Place the dirt in six inch lifts and compact each lift.

Plan your fill so the drainage goes somewhere. If you don't, it will go where you don't want it - guaranteed. I try to slope dirt to 2% (1/4 inch per ft) minimum. Flatter than that, you'll get frog habitat. Of course, your slab wants to be flatter, but you can set forms for that, and screed your gravel base and concrete pretty accurately.
 
   / How to calculate how much fill is needed?? #10  
Simply calculate a rectangle (H*W*D). Unless it's a very steep slope, it'll be close enough once the dirt settles.
 

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