How do you get curl cylinders back in time?

williaty · May 29, 2015

While re-attaching the H120 loader to my 1023e, I've been thinking it's a little harder to connect the loader to the tractor and a lot harder to disconnect/connect the bucket to the loader. Today, I looked at it from the right angle and finally saw the problem. The curl cylinders are out of time. One is about 1.5" farther extended than the other, which obviously throws the bucket QA out of whack and also affects the loader QA since you push the loader off the floor via the bucket.

How the heck do I get the curl cylinders back in time? I'm fairly sure this is going to involve manually moving just one cylinder until it's at the same extension as the other cylinder, but I have no idea how to do this.

Help!

square1 · May 30, 2015

I'd try repeatedly running to max extension then max contraction, max extension, max contraction....while checking & maintaining fluid level.

Tx Jim · May 30, 2015

Look for a missing/broken pin(parts key 5) on cylinder timing rod.

williaty · May 31, 2015

OK, a bunch of data, not sure what to make out of all of it.

1) Mid-range between max curl and max uncurl, the difference in cylinder extension is about 1.5". The difference in paddle position is about 4", which makes it difficult or impossible to pick up the bucket and also makes one corner of the bucket, when mounted, hit the ground first which means I can't dig a flat-bottomed hole. I assume this means it'd also be impossible to carry something on a set of forks because they'd constantly be drooping to one side.

2) The timing bar is not broken and both pins are solid and properly in place.

3) At full curl if you hold it there for a moment the paddles line up and cylinder extension is equal. At full curl, the pins in the timing bar are loose and you can rattle them back and forth with your fingers.

4) At full uncurl if you hold it there for a moment the paddles line up and the cylinder extension is equal. At full uncurl, the pins in the timing bar are loose and you can rattle them back and forth with your fingers.

5) Anywhere in the working range between full curl and full uncurl, the cylinder extension is unequal and the paddles do not line up. At this point, the timing bar is tight on the pins and you can't force them to move or twist even with a pair of pliers. The right paddle will always move farther/faster than the left paddle

6) The positioning difference grows as you move the system away from either end of the range. So you hit one end of travel, the paddles line up, then you start moving the other direction and they get worse and worse out of alignment the farther you go.

So, it looks like every piece of the system is in place, they just get too far away from each other during normal operation. It's like the timing bar's holes are either wallowed out so that the pins are loose (so there's too much slop in the system to actually keep them in time).

So what do you guys think now?

square1 · May 31, 2015

Sounds like it's possibly a fluid delivery problem. Is there a place to check / compare pressure after the quick disconnects individually on each cylinder during operation? If not a physical check or replacement of the quick disconnects on the slow side might cure it.

Mace Canute · May 31, 2015

Off hand I'd venture a guess you have something bent out of shape but you'll have to do a few checks to track the cause down. If you swap cylinders from side to side and the same condition continues to exist you'll have proved the cause isn't cylinder related. Another test involves swapping the hoses between the splitter junction blocks and the cylinders doing one set at a time; by this I mean swap the ones that see pressure in the uncurl mode from one side to the other and then do the hoses that see pressure in the curl mode. This will test if the internal liner on one hose is acting as a flow restriction...they have been known to peel lose and fold over under flow and act as a plug in the line. To check if your loader is bent, park the tractor on level concrete and then make sure the tractor is level from side to side at the back by measuring down from a fixed point on each side of the tractor at the rear to the concrete and adjusting as needed. Once the tractor is square with the concrete you can start to measure points on the loader arms down to the concrete and noting if there are any differences from side to side.

woodchipper · May 31, 2015

Mace has possibly a good remedy here. Try to very slowly curl and uncurl with the loader off. See if any excessive binding/twisting happens at your timing bar. If it goes smooth, I would check for loose quick attach loader pins, curl cylinder pins, and excessive play at your timing bar connections. If your loader has been home made, repaired, or fabricated, then It could be a bad positioning of your cylinder mounts on the loader arms. But per your symptoms, I would dought about this possibility.

SPYDERLK · May 31, 2015

Your timing rod is twisted.
,,, Put the most extended QA carrier against something solid and push [uncurl] slowly until the retracted one is out about an inch more than the one restrained. ... Check and repeat, adjusting amt of uncurl used.
larry

square1 · May 31, 2015

The right paddle will always move farther/faster than the left paddle

Your timing rod is twisted.

It would seem that if a twisted timing bar (or something else being bent) the side that leads to uncurl would trail while curling, no?

SPYDERLK · May 31, 2015

SPYDERLK said:
Your timing rod is twisted.
,,, Put the most extended QA carrier against something solid and push [uncurl] slowly until the retracted one is out about an inch more than the one restrained. ... Check and repeat, adjusting amt of uncurl used.
larry

square1 said:
It would seem that if a twisted timing bar (or something else being bent) the side that leads to uncurl would trail while curling, no?

williaty said:
OK, a bunch of data, not sure what to make out of all of it.

1) Mid-range between max curl and max uncurl, the difference in cylinder extension is about 1.5". The difference in paddle position is about 4", which makes it difficult or impossible to pick up the bucket and also makes one corner of the bucket, when mounted, hit the ground first which means I can't dig a flat-bottomed hole. I assume this means it'd also be impossible to carry something on a set of forks because they'd constantly be drooping to one side.

2) The timing bar is not broken and both pins are solid and properly in place.

3) At full curl if you hold it there for a moment the paddles line up and cylinder extension is equal. At full curl, the pins in the timing bar are loose and you can rattle them back and forth with your fingers.

4) At full uncurl if you hold it there for a moment the paddles line up and the cylinder extension is equal. At full uncurl, the pins in the timing bar are loose and you can rattle them back and forth with your fingers.

5) Anywhere in the working range between full curl and full uncurl, the cylinder extension is unequal and the paddles do not line up. At this point, the timing bar is tight on the pins and you can't force them to move or twist even with a pair of pliers. The right paddle will always move farther/faster than the left paddle

6) The positioning difference grows as you move the system away from either end of the range. So you hit one end of travel, the paddles line up, then you start moving the other direction and they get worse and worse out of alignment the farther you go.

So, it looks like every piece of the system is in place, they just get too far away from each other during normal operation. It's like the timing bar's holes are either wallowed out so that the pins are loose (so there's too much slop in the system to actually keep them in time).

So what do you guys think now?