Heat Pump

[Rodmo1]

Hi guys,

Sorry if this topic is somewhat irrelevant to tractors/farmwork, but I do not wish to sign up for any more forums to ask one question. With that said here we go...I just finished my last project (pole building) and am now on to the next one at hand. I need to replace my oil furnace. It will not last many more seasons so I am looking to replace it now while I can still qualify for the energy tax credits. I also wish to dismantle my chimney which was built in such a way that it wicks moisture up against the house causing rot. So it seems to me that a air source heat pump is the logical choice. My big question is the long term costs. Here in central PA electric rate caps are set to expire which will likely increase the cost to about 12 cents a Kwhr. I am wondering what most heat pump owners pay monthly on their electric bill that is directly related to running the heater. I live in a 900 sf house that is adequately insulated. Appreciate any info.

Rod M.

 

[theboman]

Heat Pump the only way to go in my electric bill paying opinion.

I have a new 1800+ sq ft double wide, 2x6 walls, the highest insulation package available, best windows available. We ordered the home with a heat pump. The first few electric bills were kinda higher than expected, then the forth came along and I nearly had a heart attck over a $400 dollar electric bill ($250 was the highest I'd ever expected/budgeted!). A call to the power company and they did an energy audit and everything was our fault...you know 70 as thermostat setting...CFL blubs... they said it's a double wide and energy hog.
I noticed the heat pump just didn't seem right, upon original installation they brought us an air conditioner and not a heat pump the swapped it out, but the outside unit never seemed to run. The HAVC folks said it's too cold..under 26 degrees its too cold to warm the outside air... I told the guy it's 45 outside. They sent out a tech and the compressor had NEVER WORKED! Brand new outta the box a bad compressor. From that time on the electric bills have dropped and last month was only $140 and that includes a $20 monthly hike! We also installed 3 Hunter ceiling fans too.

Get a programmable thermostat, next on our list and a water heater blanket.,,,

 

[Rodmo1]

Thanks Boman...Seems there is a lot of misinformation out there regarding heat pumps. Some people say they dont belong anywhere north of the carolinas. I currently pay about $100 a month in electric and am hoping that with a heat pump that does not go over $150. Unfortunately I pay about $40 of the $100 just heating my hot tub. I burn a wood stove mostly in the winter but I travel for work and the girl likes a warm house when I am gone. The idea of a relatively stable energy price vs. the rollercoaster of oil prices the past few years is a very big selling point as well. Without the woodstove I would consume about 400-500 gallons of oil a season.

Rod M.

 

[Bird]

about 12 cents a Kwhr

I'm paying about 14 cent a kwhr. This house is a well insulated 1,295 sq. ft. home with a 10 year old Rheem heat pump. So far this year, my 10 month average bill has been $197.28 with the highest bill being $269.98 for the July heat. The 12 month average for 2008 was $178.80 and this year's average will come down some with the cooler weather in Nov. & Dec. Of course we are NOT very energy efficient, I'm afraid. My computer is on 24/7, the living room TV and satellite receiver are on 16 hours a day (whether anyone is watching it or not), a florescent light (two 4' tubes) is on in the garage 24/7, and the other two fixtures in the garage (two 8' tubes each) are frequently used. The "shop" (also used as a recreation room), 21' x 25' has a second refrigerator, a frequently used air-compressor, an infrequently used window air-conditioner/heater, and eight florescent light fixtures with two 4' 40 watt tubes in each. There are also two outdoor CFL that are on 24/7, one in front and one in back, and three CFL on the patio that are one when the dog is let out after dark. So, yes, I like the heat pump, but our numbers may not be much use to you.

 

[cup149]

I'm north of Pittsburgh and without looking, I think I spent less than $300 more in electricity last year (first year with heat pump with oil backup). 1450 sq foot, good insulation, heat pump set to be on 20 degrees and above, oil below that. I know that the 20 degrees will freak some out, but my heat loss seems to be pretty low and the heat pump satifies the call for heat in less than 20 minutes, after that the oil would kick in. I needed a new air conditioner the summer when oil was over $4 a gallon, so went with heat pump instead. Very complicated thermostat and interconnection to the oil furnace. As installed the thermostat turned on the oil heat after only ten minutes of heat pump running. Oil came on almost every call for heat. I changed that about mid winter. I used about 100 gallons of oil last winter instead of the usual 250, so cost with todays oil price comes out about even or just a little better. Should use less oil this winter. Ok, just calculated...used 1700 kwh more last winter than the one before that.

 

[windy acers]

Highbird system- propane/heat pump= savings of 1.25 tanks of 500 gal propane. using 3/4 of 500 gal tank on a 1400 sq ft. house in ohio I have not used gas as of mid november. 10seer heat pump adds about $30.00 per month eletric.

 

[deere5105]

You may want to consider a geothermal heat pump. Circulates water through pipes in the ground which maintains a more stable temperature. Another option would be the oil/gas backup instead of the standard heat strips used. I live in South MS and our temperatures just don't get that cold. I work for a utility company and approximately 90% of the new home construction we see utilitzes the air to air heat pump. I have one on my home. Heating and cooling approximately 2350 sq ft with a inground swimming pool and shop. Price per kwh right now is around $0.12. I pay about $9 per month for an outdoor light and my average bill is $200. I used cellulose insulation and the tech shield roof decking. I have been very pleased. The thermostat I have is programmable, but I noticed it doesn't seem to function properly for heating. My unit was staying on. I set it to 70 and leave it on manual all winter long. This also helps to control the humidity in the house. It has been my experience that you do not want to oversize the unit. It needs to run to remove the humidity. I was concerned with the amount of run time on my unit, but have been pleased with the bill.

 

[AHNC]

I would leave the existing system in place and go with a Mini-split heat pump. Add, don't replace! My disclaimer here is that I am a manuf rep and I sell the Fujitsu brand. I am absolutely biased based upon my experience and the equipments performance. Other manuf in this catagory are Mitsubishi & sanyo. These are the three top brands. Given the change to the 410A refrigerant and the technological leap to inverter control (variable speed) the efficiencies are through the roof. For 900 Sq ft I would put in a 12RLS in the Fujitsu line. 26 seer, 12 HSPF. That qualifies for the 30% federal rebate up to $1,500 of installed cost and there are frequently local utility rebates as well.

The 12 RLS is probably a bit undersized and you could go up to a 15 or 18 should you choose to do so. You could also put in a dual dual or tri system. Floor plan/use will determine the proper equip selection. Not all systems meet the rebate requirements so look before you leap.

Unless it is new construction, personally, I wouldn't do a water source unit. First cost is high and retrofitting systems can be technically challenging. I cannot refute their efficiencies but there is equipment on the near horizon (1-2yrs) that will offer water source numbers without the water. On a first cost basis, put in a properly sized mini-split heat pump. Run it for both heat and cool with high efficiencies and much simpler installation and you will, in my opinion, be money ahead.

 

[Rodmo1]

Thanks guys for the responses. I got a quote from a local contractor who is well reviewed. He was recommending a split system 2.5 ton 2 stage. With a HSPF of 9.6. Total bill would be $5600 and it would qualify for the rebates so actual cost = $4100. Unfortunately I have to be solely heat pump as my chimney is in BAD shape and it would not be cost effective to replace it. I am also looking forward to the summer AC. The R-410a refrigerant sounds like a big step forward for the industry from what I have been told. It sounds to me from the responses that $50 a month is a decent estimate of the costs.

Rod M.

 

[AHNC]

Given that you are making a significant investment in the existing system, I would suggest that you put a bit more into your duct system. Typically, the air leakage in older, and many new, duct systems runs from 18-45% leakage, according to DOE. Ask you contractor to pick up a couple gallons of water based duct seal. Hardcast, Polymer Adhesives, etc are just some of the brand names. Do not rely on duct tape. It will blow away in less than 6 mos. You can do this job yourself.