grade/incline in road

radman1 · Dec 22, 2007

I live at the top of a hill and next spring, the city is going to pave the gravel road in front of my house. They are planning to cut down the hill about 12'. Their orignal plan shows lowering the front of my property, about 400' width, down to near road level. My house sits back from the road about 500'. I would prefer that the front of my property remains elevated so I don't see the traffic and instead have a gradual incline driveway onto my property. I also have 2 rows of windbreak trees and a row of shrubs planted in front. My plan would save the cost of removing and replanting the vegitation. A gradual incline will still require sort of a "V" in the property for the driveway to meet the paved road. Legally, they can do a 1' rise for each 3' run, but that seems steep - esp in ice/snow. My driveway is limestone rock. I occassionally pull trailer loads as heavy as 15K. What is a resonable grade to drive up? How wide should the cut be for the shoulder on each side of the driveway?

Highbeam · Dec 22, 2007

A 3:1 slope (33%) as you mentioned is typically safe for a slope. Too steep for a road which is usually measured in % by dividing rise/run x100. For example, the new road will have a crown with a crosslope of 2% so in 10 feet of width it will drop 0.2 feet.

The steepness of your driveway won't be the killer as much as the low spot created by going from a 2% downhill crowned road to a 10-15% uphill driveway. That is, long before it is too steep to climb, your truck will scrape the ball hitch.

Here's what you propose to the govt. doing the work. Make it legal for firetruck access. Those guys will want a certain gentle grade on the road. They'll want a particular radius on the corner (usually 25') and they'll have clear standrads written to that effect. Besides, if a firetruck can't make it to your home then how are you supposed to survive a fire? If a firetruck can make it to your home then you should have no problem with a trailer.

There is no reason to lower the entire 400' of your frontage. I agree with you that it would be more desirable to lower only the driveway and leave the rest as undisturbed as possible. That will be cheaper for them and will save your topsoil, yard, and plantings.

EddieWalker · Dec 23, 2007

Highbeam said:
Here's what you propose to the govt. doing the work. Make it legal for firetruck access. Those guys will want a certain gentle grade on the road. They'll want a particular radius on the corner (usually 25') and they'll have clear standrads written to that effect. Besides, if a firetruck can't make it to your home then how are you supposed to survive a fire? If a firetruck can make it to your home then you should have no problem with a trailer.

This is very good advice. It's also very powerful information to have when getting the government to do it right.

A friend of mine had an easement through Park land that they refused to maintain. They didn't want him crossing their land and made it as dificult as possible by putting up gates and widening the creek to the point it eroded out allot of his road to get to his land. After a few years of fighting them, he learned about the power of the Fire Marshall.

My friend invited the Fire Marshall out to his place to inspect his home, but they were not able to get there because of the condition of the road. The Fire Marshall made a few phone calls and the road was fixed to a level never seen before. It was amazing what was accomplished in a very short amount of time!!!!!!!!!!!

Eddie

radman1 · Dec 24, 2007

Thanks for the info. I didn't think about the trailer or hitch hitting given the slope. My 24' bumper pull and 32' goosenecktrailer will probably scrape the road with a steep slope.The Fire requirements should be a good guidline. I asssume that they will be meeting fire dept. standards, because the road is actually part of the city and my property is still rural.

cattoon · Dec 24, 2007

Please don't assume that any government has your best interest at heart, cares what it will cost you in the end, or have completely thought this out at any level

Rara Avis · Dec 25, 2007

cattoon said:
Please don't assume that any government has your best interest at heart, cares what it will cost you in the end, or have completely thought this out at any level

Absolutely...

The TWO MOST EXPENSIVE words you will ever hear from a Government Man...

"TRUST ME"...

Highbeam · Dec 26, 2007

radman1 said:
The Fire requirements should be a good guidline. I asssume that they will be meeting fire dept. standards, because the road is actually part of the city and my property is still rural.

They will meet fire standards for the road but not necessarily for your private driveway. I have worked on many of these road projects and the driveways must meet city lot driveway standards at best. Many times we simply tried to match grades with a smallish cut or fill on the driveway. Fire department standards are more stringent since most driveways are not required to be accessible by firetrucks. Your driveway doesn't sound like a "city" driveway and you trailer is NOT a "city" type of vehicle so construction methods that would be acceptable in the city for a residential lot aren't likely good enough for your needs.

So the road is city and your lot is rural. Do you mean that you are not a city resident? You don't pay city taxes? You're not a voter in their elections? If so, your satisfaction won't be quite as important and you'll need to be extra vocal. The city fire department may not care about your driveway since they won't be fighting your fire.

dmccarty · Dec 26, 2007

We have a COUNTY fire marshal. I don't know if the cities in my county also have a fire marshal but I know the big cities have them. Find out who provides your fire service and go from there. In terms of code I would expect that the city would be more stringint than the county but you have to check for your area.

We have had road projects around here that have messed up peoples access to their homes regarding grade. I know there was lots of wrangling with the state DOT and it seems like the property owners where satisfied. You might have to get a lawyer involved who knows the state/city/county responsibilities.

Not only do you have a concern with emergency service and your own access but erosion of the driveway with the new slope that the G'ment has caused to occur.

I would start with the Fire marshal for your house, then the building/code office to check on their standards and finally check the state to see if they have regulations that would apply. Once you know what they are supposed to do make them stick to it and if you don't like the standard see if you can get an exception. But that might take a lawyer.

Good Luck!
Dan

radman1 · Dec 27, 2007

Highbeam said:
So the road is city and your lot is rural. Do you mean that you are not a city resident? You don't pay city taxes? You're not a voter in their elections? If so, your satisfaction won't be quite as important and you'll need to be extra vocal. The city fire department may not care about your driveway since they won't be fighting your fire.

Not in the city yet. However, the my county taxes are just a high as the city. The city controls the building and permits for a 3 mile limit beyond their current boundries. My fire dept and EMS are also the city. There is no city police but only county police. I don't have city water or sewer at this time. It is kind of a mixture of county and city services.