Anonymous Poster
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- Sep 27, 2005
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I understand your point Richard, and while that may well be true in your neck of the woods it ain't necessarily so everywhere.
As I said many government agencies in this part of the country, ranging from the state, to counties, to townships, to individual towns, have discovered that commercial enforcement can be a good source of income. As a consequence, in many areas, the definition for "commercial use" is being interpreted much differently than where you live and work.
As I posted previously, because of how the statutes are worded, in many states in the northeast, equipment that is used in an activity that MAY generate INCOME is considered commercial. Not "equipment whose primary purpose is to generate income". And make note - the definition is based on "income", NOT "profit".
To restate a previous example - race car haulers. Seems like a simple, non-coomercial hobby. Unfortunately, as the laws are interpreted in PA, you are engaged in an activity that MAY generate income (by winning - wether you win or not), and as such your equipment falls under the jurisdiction of Commercial Transport. Meaning that not only do you need to comply with licencing requirements, but also documentation (drivers logs) and Haz-Mat (even if you are in a 1/2 ton pick-up, if you carry more gaslone that the minimum reportable quantity, you MUST have a CDL AND proper placarding). As a result many,many,many hobby racers in PA and the surrounding states have reduced the size of their trailers and stopped carrying as much extra fuel.
By the same token, a small farm MAY produce INCOME. Bang - you're commercial.
I agree with what everyone reading this is probably thinking - "That's completely ridiculous (or some other adjective)!!" Unfortunately, what you think has little effect on what happens to you on the road. All I'm advocating here is to be aware that situations change depending on where you are, and that some good insurance, as well as peace of mind, can be had by being as compliant as possible at all times.
Additionally, you mentioned the "not for hire" markings. In PA those do NOT exempt you from commercial compliance - simply from having to carry commercial insurance, a DOT number, and ICC authority. Of course if the same trooper sees you in the same place, doing the same work, on more than a few ocassions, he might well decide to investigate your activities, which could put you in hot water right quick...!
Another thing to remember is that with all the confusion about what's required, you might well BE compliant and the officer doesn't understand that. Well in most places, since he's the law, you end up doing what he decides is right. If that leaves you impounded, or cited, or worse, you WILL do what he decides is right. Sure, you may work it out, in a day, or 2, or a week. But what in the meantime? You know as well as I do if an officer thinks your rig should be impounded, it will be. And if it's Saturday, on the way to a show (or whatever), you WILL be in that small town til Monday afternoon - minimium. I doubt anybody will compensate you for lost time/wages/expenses either.
Like I said - I have a CDL to cover my ****. The things I'm talking about here aren't theoretical, thay have happened to me and people I know (friends, customers) as well as information/stories I have heard from law enforcement folks.
Sorry for the lengthy posts, but this is a serious situation. It took a few years for those of us in this part of the country to get used to it, and I would hope that the readers here, and especially the moderators, take the time to realize that what goes in your part of the counrty doesn't always fly in others.
Gregg
As I said many government agencies in this part of the country, ranging from the state, to counties, to townships, to individual towns, have discovered that commercial enforcement can be a good source of income. As a consequence, in many areas, the definition for "commercial use" is being interpreted much differently than where you live and work.
As I posted previously, because of how the statutes are worded, in many states in the northeast, equipment that is used in an activity that MAY generate INCOME is considered commercial. Not "equipment whose primary purpose is to generate income". And make note - the definition is based on "income", NOT "profit".
To restate a previous example - race car haulers. Seems like a simple, non-coomercial hobby. Unfortunately, as the laws are interpreted in PA, you are engaged in an activity that MAY generate income (by winning - wether you win or not), and as such your equipment falls under the jurisdiction of Commercial Transport. Meaning that not only do you need to comply with licencing requirements, but also documentation (drivers logs) and Haz-Mat (even if you are in a 1/2 ton pick-up, if you carry more gaslone that the minimum reportable quantity, you MUST have a CDL AND proper placarding). As a result many,many,many hobby racers in PA and the surrounding states have reduced the size of their trailers and stopped carrying as much extra fuel.
By the same token, a small farm MAY produce INCOME. Bang - you're commercial.
I agree with what everyone reading this is probably thinking - "That's completely ridiculous (or some other adjective)!!" Unfortunately, what you think has little effect on what happens to you on the road. All I'm advocating here is to be aware that situations change depending on where you are, and that some good insurance, as well as peace of mind, can be had by being as compliant as possible at all times.
Additionally, you mentioned the "not for hire" markings. In PA those do NOT exempt you from commercial compliance - simply from having to carry commercial insurance, a DOT number, and ICC authority. Of course if the same trooper sees you in the same place, doing the same work, on more than a few ocassions, he might well decide to investigate your activities, which could put you in hot water right quick...!
Another thing to remember is that with all the confusion about what's required, you might well BE compliant and the officer doesn't understand that. Well in most places, since he's the law, you end up doing what he decides is right. If that leaves you impounded, or cited, or worse, you WILL do what he decides is right. Sure, you may work it out, in a day, or 2, or a week. But what in the meantime? You know as well as I do if an officer thinks your rig should be impounded, it will be. And if it's Saturday, on the way to a show (or whatever), you WILL be in that small town til Monday afternoon - minimium. I doubt anybody will compensate you for lost time/wages/expenses either.
Like I said - I have a CDL to cover my ****. The things I'm talking about here aren't theoretical, thay have happened to me and people I know (friends, customers) as well as information/stories I have heard from law enforcement folks.
Sorry for the lengthy posts, but this is a serious situation. It took a few years for those of us in this part of the country to get used to it, and I would hope that the readers here, and especially the moderators, take the time to realize that what goes in your part of the counrty doesn't always fly in others.
Gregg
