Getting screwed on warranty!

[MtnViewRanch]

Just some more info, my Mahindra 7520 has the rear remote valves as described on the John Deeres. Valve has detent in both directions, valves kicks out, (back to neutral) when hydraulic reaches end of stroke. If not hooked up, will always go back to neutral.

 

[Jaybr]

Just curious about the valves that kick back to neutral.

I use the rear remotes for a backhoe, what happens when I reach the end of stroke on the backhoe with one of these type valves? I assume since I'd be breifly deadheading the pump, the lever would kick back to neutral?

If that is the case, I can see why that type valve isn't installed, I'd spend all my time getting off the backhoe to reset the valve.

 

[SPYDERLK]

If John Deere can make/buy a detent valve that automatically returns to neutral when deadheaded, then why can't Kioti? Is there some technical reason? Is it oversight? Is it that it is patent protected? Or is it like the dash-mounted manual fuel shutoff - just to keep costs down?

Is there confirmation that the JD remote does that? I'm trying to envision the mechanism for such a safety and am having a hard time.

I have two remotes on my Kioti DK. One has a spring like action that permits partial opening of the valve in either direction (A or B) but it will spring back to off unless you pull it all the way back or forward to the detent to lock it open. The other remote (similar to the one I had on my CK20) is just a slide lever that has no spring and can be feathered but basically is designed to go either to A or B and stay there.

My 1962 JD2010 has this. My Mahindra 7520 has it. It is internal to the remote valve. Pressure overides the detent somewhat prior to the relief setting. If you want full relief pressure for an implement the remote lever must be physically held to keep the valve open.
larry

 

[Baranx4]

Really sorry to hear that it cost you $1200 to find out what was wrong.

I think you would be smart to go the state attorney generals office route with the consumer protection agency. They will act almost immediately in response to the claim. Include that it's a known design flaw and that the dealer has a service update stating that Kioti will no longer warranty pumps. Send copies of all correspondence including, times and people you spoke with and the Kioti rep comment of driving your tractor into an object.

At the same time I would in person contact your local congressmans/senators office. Bring all your documentation with you. It's amazing what happens when big brother gets involved. Even if it's just a phone call or printed letter in regards to it it helps.

Try BBB but if they aren't a participating member then it has no impact.

Lawsuit but consider your looking at atleast $500 retainer for an attorney to show up in court.

Did you pay by credit card? I'd contest the charge. I think with the repeated efforts of the dealer to continue to replace the o rings without investigating the underlying cause shows negligence. If the Kioti rep stated that you could hear the pump moaning from it deadheading then how didn't the mechanic hear it. Worse case scenerio your out the cost of one or two of the pump rebuilds, or just the cost of the pump. I'd contact another dealer or two to price out the pump, incase they mark it up.


I once had a bad experience on a vacation rental on the outer banks, the home had been damaged the previous Sept from a hurricane and had just been reopened the week before we rented it in June. This was an ocean front home where we pain top Dollar for the rental. We had everything from the roof leaking from rain the day we arrived, to no phone service, to the 3rd floor a/c unit leaking water through a light fixture during dinner one evening and half of the ammenities listed in the rental not being functional or not even there like the grill, outside shower, picknick table, furniture etc. Nothing like a very large living room changing from a large screen tv to a 25 inch or broken furniture. When I contacted the rental company I got the run arround, even when I pointed out that the listed ammenities are still shown online for the house including photos of items not there. One of the workers there even told me they had to set the septic tank twice and my response was how does it have any bearing on the issues I'm having.

They refused any refund and told me to have my attorney contact their attorney. I instead chose my states attorney generals office and consumer protection agency. I included photos of what ammenities the house had now and what it listed on their web site including the rental companies own photos. I asked that they be barred from doing and advertising their business in Pa. and that they knowingly continued to advertise a home fraudulently knowing it didn't have items listed in it's description. It's hard to show a outdoor shower, underbuilding parking, and fish cleaning station when the entire area is covered by 5 feet of sand. Needless to say I got back almost half of the money and they had to give some form of refund to individuals who rented the house without the listed ammenities.

Good luck, I know it can be a pain in the buttocks

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Just curious about the valves that kick back to neutral.

I use the rear remotes for a backhoe, what happens when I reach the end of stroke on the backhoe with one of these type valves? I assume since I'd be breifly deadheading the pump, the lever would kick back to neutral?

If that is the case, I can see why that type valve isn't installed, I'd spend all my time getting off the backhoe to reset the valve.

I suppose in your case, you would fasten the lever in the open position with a bungee cord or something similar. I believe that is what the people do that have no detent at all. I know that a lot of people run their backhoes off of their remotes, but is it not a better idea to run them from a power beyond port? I would think that the restriction put on the fluid through the quick disconnect of the remote would not be the best way to be running a back hoe. Again, I know that a lot of people do this, just not the best way in my opinion.

 

[JoelD]

I am really sorry you are going through this.

I know I sound like a broken record.

I'm at the same place I was in the begining.

The pump broke, you have no idea what caused it and neither do they.

Detent, valve open, valve closed, bla bla bla. You attest you opperated with the valve in the correct position, they say you did not. They say they tried to fix two times and did not notice the valve setting until the third attempt, and take a position it was like that all along, and I say a pig just flew past my house, more bla bla bla.

No different than me saying you stole money out of my wallet and you saying we've never met, me saying you grabbed my but in the elevator and you saying "whaaaat ?". Just hearsay (not sure that's the correct word).

It broke under warranty and needs to be replaced under warranty, no evidence to the contrary. Humm, maybe the cause was the faulty o-ring that failed, fragmented, got into the relief valve, fouled it, and contributed to overheating. There's a good theory for you, and no easier to prove or disprove than the crud they are saying.

Hopefully you paid via credit card. Challenge the charge, make it clear you paid in order to obtain your property back, the charge was forced and in no way did you concur with the charge.

Turn the tables and let them sue you for payment, go to court, lay it all out, and say "pound Sand".

Here I am in my basement office and just thinking about this is irritating me.

Sorry my friend, again, share this dealer's story with everyone and anyone you can.

Joel

 

[JoelD]

If they can't troubleshoot a simple HYD problem on a Kioti do you really think they could troubleshoot a problem on a Kubota!
And they screwed up your pump not you, if it was bad to begin with it would not have blown the O-rings 1-2-3-4- ? times. it was pumping.

That's a very interesting point kenstrac.

Joel

 

[Baranx4]

What I find interesting is that not one dealer posted a single reply here in regards to this individuals issues and a way of addressing the problem. I was hoping that someone from the inside looking out would post their opinion or give insight on how to go about contesting a warranty issue since there should be a listed policy and procedure manual from Kioti to dealers regarding this. It's rather disappointing.

But if you state your looking into x model with y options, you get a few P.M.'s with prices, sometimes with delivery too. I guess there's a line in the sand, and if doesn't contain $$$ it doesn't get crossed.


I'm also surprised that nobody has mentioned a class action suit for all individuals who own models that can potentially have the same results, so that if the problem arises it will be covered under warranty. Or perhaps if individuals file complaints to their state attorney generals office in regards to the potential issue, I bet Kioti would reconsider their stand.

My dealer did a good job pointing out the issue when they delivered the tractor, and even mentioned adding a loop, it however was never mentioned prior to then. I don't like the idea of a $1200 repair bill for something that is obviously a known issue. Who can say with 100% certainty that I would have purchased the tractor if the design issue had been braught to my attention prior to the paperwork being signed.

 

[jim_n_nh]

I too have had issues with Kioti. I finally found service bullentins stating it was a known problem and dealers would be reimbursed to fix the issue. This and alot of behind the scenes support from dealers helped me out greatly. I had to persue everyone, emailed over 50 Kioti dealers and called numerous ones personally. It took me nine months and getting banned from tractorbynet, and having my threads being deleted to get Kioti to step up.

Would I buy another one................................... Yes, from Ken's Tractor in Swanzy NH or several other dealers that came through for me. Kioti cannot always stick their head in the sand when it comes to support.

 

[J35]

I'd just like to point out, I did shop the dealer. Dubberly, when I was dealing with the Dubberly's was a great dealer. When I was shopping for a new tractor, I started with Kubota, the dealer lost the sale. I had purchased implements from Dubberly in the past and always had a great experience. I took a chance on Kioti, which I had never heard of at the time becuase of the great dealership.

It's a shame, but they sold the business and obviously the new owners are not taking care of their Kioti customers.

Hey, sorry about your situation ,just thought I would say there is a Kioti dealer on RT 1 in Ashland just S. of the Kabota dealer, maybe you know already, just a thought for down the road.

Good luck

 

[Coyote machine]

Just curious: Jim in nh, where did you acquire service bulletins and what models and years did they cover?
Additionally, if you were banned from TBN how are you now posting on TBN, or am I missing something obvious?

For what its worth I happen to think my new Kioti DK35se/HSt is a great tractor, and thought I do not have a huge amount of experience with tractors by any means, i believe that a manufacturer should stand behind their product, especially in economic times like now. Tractors are hugely expensive items and require periodic maintenance and close attention to all details regarding their operation. That being said, it may also be the reason that some dealers, and possibly the manufacturer- in this case Kioti may tend to run and hide with a known issue that may end up costing them a lot of warranty dollars. The design may change in upcoming models, or a warning may be in the next owner's manuals, but one thing is certain, the design of the lock into position valve to run the rear remote valves will cause a lot of people problems.

I do believe forums like this are a valuable place for people to learn more than what they knew before entering the TBN forums. And having discourse about problems, as well as how to solve problems is what we're here for. Some dealers are going to be seen as good and some as bad based on various opinions here or elsewhere, but it will not break anyone's business having their methods of handling customers discussed here. Most reasonable people will see that there is OPINION expressed in this thread about what happened, who is responsible, etc. Nothing said here is written in stone, and what is written ought to be seen as each person's take on the situation, not as TRUTH or fiction.

I for one would like to hear what the service bulletins have to say.....

 

[Jaybr]

Hey, sorry about your situation ,just thought I would say there is a Kioti dealer on RT 1 in Ashland just S. of the Kabota dealer, maybe you know already, just a thought for down the road.

Good luck

yeah, I saw them about a month ago when I was up that way. I live in Chesterfield just outside of Colonial Heights, so it's a pretty good ride up there.

I don't think I'll be taking it back to Dubberly though.

 

[DJ Carmean]

It should no tbe hard to get your money back. Mosst companies are willing to settle things out of court than pay their $500.00 an hour lawyer to go to court with someone over $1200.00. I would sue them in a heartbeat. Being in the insurance business I hate lawsuits. Most are bullcrap. But it's more bs that a large company will make one of their clients pay for something they sent a TSB out for. A TSB will usually be sent out before they have a recall on a certain item. They know they have a problem, so why do they not fix it? The dealer should help out as much as possible if he wants to keep you as a client. It will cost him nothing but a little time and effort to go to bat for you. Good luck with it!

 

[CurlyDave]

...And they screwed up your pump not you, if it was bad to begin with it would not have blown the O-rings 1-2-3-4- ? times. it was pumping.

This is an excellent observation and a very strong argument.

Do you have the sequence of events in their shop in writing by them?

If not, get it before you even breathe a word about this line of logic. Once they put down in writing that the pump was blowing o-rings, which they replaced several times, they have essentially admitted the pump was strong when it came in their door.

Then hit them with kenstrac's logic.

They will dance, squirm and probably lie, but you have them.

 

[Oleozz]

This thread is very reminiscent of the cracked loader threads that were posted a year or so ago and reminds me of the way Kioti initially handled that problem. Or should I say refused to handle the problem until a lot of pressure was applied to them.

 

[kenstrac]

I love diesels I once bought a diesel Chevette (FOOL) I was changing the oil one day and noticed the shock coming through the tower went to Chevy and asked if they had a problem with this service dept said no BUT you can buy a beef up kit in parts to solve this problem (2 big fender washers) did not have a problem HMMM.
1996 Dodge diesel doing service on truck noticed throttle cable fraid went to dealer asked if they had a problem said no not at all went to parts and purchased a new cable about $60 got to installing it found the was a revised design 2 mos later RECALL brought it in OH you already changed it Yes but can I get my money back for the cable NO!

Rented a trailer from U-Haul in GA. to bring a car back up north they hooked the trailer up to truck and blew the fuse 2 hrs later and 18 fuses later and a lot of cussing from the employee that my truck was the problem he had to leave to go to his other job MNG came out and said my truck was the problem I insisted that was not the problem and if they would hook it up to another trailer that the employee refused to do because it was reserved for another customer that he would see that it WASN'T the truck he finally agreed and it did not blow any fuses and did not blow any fuses in 1800 mi.

Changing upper and lower ball joints in Jeep found bad U-joint, I had sold all of my presses and large vises and did not have anything to press them out went to VIP and asked them to press them out and install new U joint said it would be done in 1-2 hrs and they would call me.
Well they called and told me that the axle yoke was crack and when they pressed it out it broke and a new one was $140 I had examined the yokes when I took them out and knew they were not cracked I just told them that I would be down to look at it,was down the road and received call from service MNG and he told me that he checked it out and the tech broke it( did not remove c clip) and tried to press them out no charge on parts or labor .

I have had a lot of dealings with repairs and alot more horror stories than I have posted here most of them I was on the road and and in other states.
I have come to the conclusion that the TECH brakes it and tells the MNG that its the customer that broke it or was responsible in some way of doing it,OR the company KNOWS of a problem and will not admit to it.

 

[MossRoad]

This thread has been pruned. Many, many posts have been removed. Too many to send PMs to.

It is against TBN policy to discuss moderation practices in the forums.
It is against TBN policy to bash dealers in the forums as it is a one sided discussion.

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