Garden fence build

[drumminj]

As we close in on the end of the growing season, it's time to build a permanent garden solution vs the t-posts and chicken wire we used this year while evaluating the site location. Looking for any feedback from folks on ways to improve or mistakes I may be making...

Looking to build a fence around our garden area similar to shown in the photos here:



I've worked up my own plans based on the photos, but haven't build anything like this before so may be making some bad assumptions. Here's what I'm planning:

• Fenced area will be 35ft x 35ft (approx)
• Posts: 6x6 corners and either side of the door; 4x4 elsewhere, all buried 3' deep. Will fill bottom of hole with 3-4" of gravel and then use 2 50lb bags of quickrete to set the posts. Will backfill the rest with our clay dirt here in TN.
• All ground-contact rated pressure treated lumber (YellaWood SYP).
• Will use 5' tall 6 gauge livestock panels with 4x4 openings.
• 64" span between posts, so each panel will be 60"x64" and weigh 16 pounds.
• 2x4 top and bottom rails holding the panels, which will be toe-nailed into the posts (will use a framing nailer for the build)
• Will rip 2x4s in half for the trim pieces which hold the panels in place
• Rather than have the fence open at the bottom, I'll make a panel with 1/2" hardware cloth for the bottom 12" or so, again trimmed/framed with ripped 2x4s on three sides and buried in the ground on the bottom to protect against burrowing creatures.
• Will run 2x6s around both inside and outside of posts around the top to help with overall stability and resisting any twisting of the posts. Will face-nail to the 6x6 posts on the outside and toe-nail into the side of the 6x6s on the inside of the fence.
• Total height will be 8-9' above ground

I feel pretty good about the plan overall, but have a couple of concerns:

• Never used a framing nailer before. Gotta practice to make sure I can keep the top and bottom rails in place when I toe nail them
• Bottom 2x4 rails supporting the weight of the panel. Online calculators tell me deflection shouldn't be an issue over a 64" span with evenly distributed weight, but experience tells me a 2x4 run horizontally like that is going to sag over time. I'm hoping/expecting that the 2x "trim" pieces will help add rigidity to the span and help resist any sagging, but these obviously will be mechanically fastened together rather than being a true 3" thick piece of lumber (does that matter?)
• Will the connection points of the bottom rail to the posts be strong enough?
• Are the 2x6s at the top of the fence too big a sail such that they'll to much force on the structure in high winds? At the least they will make it a little top-heavy. I"m wondering if 2x6s would be better, even though they'd be less rigid

Would love to hear any thoughts/feedback folks might have. I've been pricing out materials the past few days and it looks like it'll come in right around $2500. Yikes!

And after this I have to put together the Costco greenhouse we have on order...

 

[2manyrocks]

You won't be driving that many fasteners relatively speaking so why not use exterior coated screws? You can reposition a screw if needed. Hand squeeze clamps could be handy for holding things in place until you screw it down.

Home Depot has 16' corral boards for about $17. They aren't 2x dimension. More like 6/4 I'd say. Instead of running 2x4s between posts that are toe nailed, you could run longer corral boards face screwed to the posts which should greatly simplify assembly time because you won't have to cut them to length between posts, and this avoids toe nailing.

 

[deezler]

Sounds like a pretty good plan to me. You're definitely over-designing it, but if that's how you like to do things, right on.

My 2 cents:

• Ditch the framing nailer idea and just use outdoor/deck screws, everywhere. This way it is all removable/adjustable if you need to make any tweaks.
• Also, just put the big panels into the dirt. Who cares if they corrode a bit over time down where you can't see them. Why have a vulnerable gap at the bottom? Ideally they are even below grade a bit to deter dig-unders.
• Also, even if you ran 2-bys underneath the panels, they would basically do nothing and not really carry the weight of the panels. The cattle/hog panels are very rigid vertically, so as long as you fasten them to the posts, you're good. They sure are floppy sideways, but strong as heck across themselves.

Here's how I did my own 24x32 garden:

I scrapped this together for very cheap overall. Mostly whatever 4x4 posts I had laying around. Bought treated (cedar-tone) 1x4s to go over the panels on the outside of the posts. If this wasn't hiding behind my house, or if I was in a nieghborhood, I might have tried to use nicer posts and make a pretty looking top rail across everything. But this works fine.
The CMU blocks and pavers I had on hand as well, only used to make a bit of retaining wall and level my soil inside. I put 3' tall chicken wire around the entire bottom perimeter, too. Rabbits can easily hop through a 4"x4" opening....

 

[2manyrocks]

4x4 panels are pretty strong in and of themselves. The boards are there mainly there for appearance to make the installed panels look straighter.

 

[chris the wrench]

I echo the screws preference stated above. Ive built several fences like the one ive included below. I usually dado blade slots in the 2x4s.

You have any small critter concerns where you will need a tighter screen down low?

 

[drumminj]

Thanks for the feedback all. General comments:

• Screws vs nails: Generally I agree and build things with screws/value being able to take it apart or adjust. In this case, I don't think I want to drive that many screws (25 posts, 4 rail connection points to each post, 2 screws per connection = 200 screws just for the rails to the posts. 4 screws per post for the 2x6 = another 100 screws. Plus the "trim" boards I'm probably over 400 screws). It will also be harder to hold up the rails and keep them level while I screw them in vs a nail gun. But I'm open to being convinced
• Panels: I wasn't planning to fasten the livestock panels to the posts, but instead just have the rails/frame support them. Basically was planning to connect the rails to the posts, then attach one side of the trim "frame" to the rails and posts, place the panel in the frame, then nail in the other side of the trim snug to the panel.
• Small Critters: Its buried in the original post, but my plan is 1/2" square hardware cloth on the bottom of the fence. Think of it as two panels in each section -- the larger 60x64" one will be 4x4 livestock panel. The panel below it will be 12" tall and have hardware cloth instead of the 4x4.

If I were to connect the panels to the posts, what kind of fastener would I use?

 

[drumminj]

Home Depot has 16' corral boards for about $17. They aren't 2x dimension. More like 6/4 I'd say. Instead of running 2x4s between posts that are toe nailed, you could run longer corral boards face screwed to the posts which should greatly simplify assembly time because you won't have to cut them to length between posts, and this avoids toe nailing.

I agree there are simpler ways to build this (and stronger, namely face-nailing/screwing everything). In this case it's aesthetics -- having the metal panel centered front to back in the posts and having the texture of the trim pieces around it.

Obviously we could build something like we did for our dog fence -- just staple/nail welded wire fence to the back or front of the posts with a 1x to cover over the joints, but looking for something better looking here. And it'll make it a more interesting project.

 

[drumminj]

Totally random comment to make on this project -- it's been a hassle tracking down 5' tall livestock panels. The local co-op and tractor supply only stock 4' tall panels.

I reached out to Oklahoma Steel/OK Panels directly and they've been awesome and a HUGE help. I never would expect their sales people to spend so much time helping out someone who only needs 8 panels for a one-off project. Kudos to them.

 

[chris the wrench]

If I were to connect the panels to the posts, what kind of fastener would I use?

Im assuming you mean attaching the goat/hog panels to the 4x4 posts kinda quick and dirty but very easy? Ive used fence post staples on projects i was less concerned about aesthetics. 3/4” long and these

Also gotta remember the wet lumber is going to dry out significantly, so all the care you put into tight corners of picture framing panel detail maybe for naught in a few months. If im doing a big job for a customer I’ll get all the lumber on site. Put the posts inthe ground and then, if time allows, come back in a few weeks and hang the rest. If its just a cedar picket fence I dont bother waiting, but i almost always try to wait a few weeks before hanging a custom wooden gate.

 

[chris the wrench]

Quick and easy on that gate or dado blade cut slots on the frames. The panels just rest in the slots.