GARAGE DOORS with a dirt floor?

[escavader]

My wife wants me to install garage doors in our barn.ACTUALLY SHE ALREADY BOUGHT THEM! We built the barn in 92.It is built on large cement tubes,that extend below the frost line. its a very solid barn ,and hasnt budged ,even in this cold climate.It has a gravel floor that i covered with that wire tarp stuff from a papermill.Most dont even know i dont have a cement floor when they come inside,and it hasnt been an issue until now. My wife is sick and tired of those swinging barn doors and the heavy plank that goes in from the inside to keep them shut...after all these years i dont blame her.I dont want to have a door that pulls down to a dirt floor,yet i dont have the desire or money to pour an entire floor.
What i was thinking was digging down under where the door goes with my hoe and putting a frost wall directly under it so it will come down to cement. I got a mixer and plywood and lumber for forms .I was thinking 6 inch wide form 4 ft deep 9 ft long with lots of rebar .WHAT i need now is good advise from you folks.Next question 3 -4 by 9 by 6 inch forms .I was just thinking this would be enough since nothing was actually gonna be built on it,right?How many bags of portland at say 4 to 1 ratio will it take.How big of a footing should i put under it,and how many more bags.I already bought 6 yards of mixing stuff its enough right?Thanks in advance,i know one of you have done this.Ill keep you posted with pics when i get started.
ALAN

 

[JJT]

Why not lay a pressure treated 6x6 down as a temporary sill? A few minutes with a shovel and you're done. When you get ready to pour the floor, pull it out and your floor will be 1 continuous pour.

 

[Paddy]

KISs. I'd keep it simple Sam (I mean Alan). Dig a small trench 12" deep and fill with gravel within a few inches of the top. Lay some brick in a bed on sand. Ever needs adjusting, tap here and there. When your ready to pour that floor, go fancy. Diging a 4' deep trench and filling it with concrete seems like a lot of work. Just a thought though.

 

[Paddy]

Hey, I like JJT's idea as well...simple. Can you belive some folks are trying to talk you out of using your toys?

 

[knute_m]

Alan,

I'm sure you want to dig, but I sure agree with JJT.

I recently sold a place a few miles over -- here in the mountains of West Virginia. It doesn't get as cold here as in Maine, but we do get a good bit of frozen earth every winter. I believe our frost line is somewhere around 18 to 24 inches.

I had a pole barn garage with a dirt floor and a garage door. The previous owner did exactly what JJT suggested. He put down about a 12-inch deep trench of gravel and put a pressure treated 6x6 even with the top of the trench. Each spring I'd have to do a little re-adjustment, but I was able to do it with just a shovel and garden rake.

My garage door fit snugly over the 6x6.

Watch out for those wild and strange Maine creatures,

Knute

 

[escavader]

Thanks guys,
I think that would be a good idea .I guess i should have added that the ground near the door does heave in the winter[not the building] I m just afraid that the door probably wont close at the top,in the winter[because it cant go down so far]if i dont go below the frost.I think im gonna compromise and just pour the frost wall.Ill drive several rebars deep as possible beyond the form to help stabilize it. Ill back fill before i pour and ill leave the plywood on to rot,instead of digging it back up and risk the wall shifting.
Can anybody answer my question on how many bags it will take? Heres a pic of the existing doors,
ALAN

 

[dtd24]

Here is a link to the quik crete web site.
Quantity Calculator Concrete

I think you can use this calculator for estimating bags.

Say 6" wide by 10' long (figuring your door is 10' wide) by 4' deep, so using the slab calculator figure: 10'x4' = 40sq ft = 34- 80# bags (does not include any footing)

Just back out the number for a 9" wall - 1/2 of 6" wall is 3" wall, right?
So, 34/2=17 bags x 3= 51- 80# bags (does not include any footing)

Sounds kinda weird. Here is another way using cu/yd. I had to call quik crete for this. Eack pallet of quick crete = 1 cu/yd. A pallet of 80# bags = 42 bags.

If I was doing this I would pour a 12" wall so I wouldn't have to use a footing. So, 1' x 10' x 4' = 40 cu ft / 27 = 1.48 cu/yd

Wow, 3 pallets of bags for this project = 126 bags. My suggestion would be to dig, form, and call in the concrete truck. Beacuse I am a freak I would drill holes into the existing wall to connect new wall with rebar.

Hope that helps, sounds like a lot, but my fav saying:
"It is what it is"

DaveD

 

[patrick_g]

I'm not indicating that previous suggestions weren't good, they were but there are lots of ways to skin a cat. I personally tend to lean toward biting thte bullet up front and only having to fuss with it once. Of course there is a lot more effort and $ to do it right but then you are done, really done.

If you dig a narrow trench deeper than your frost line (plus an inch or two if you are conservative "belt AND suspenders" type guy then you can pour a PERMANENT solution. I haven't done the math but the increase in cost due to the extra concrete vs the cost of forming materials can't be too great so why form it much below the surface? You can just form the top 3 1/2 inches with a 2x4 stabilized with stakes and kickers. The 2x4 forms will give you a guuide for screeding the top of the pour and unless you are way finicky you shouldn't have to use a trowel.

The little girlie bags of redi-crete are 60 lbs and I think they say on the bag that they make 3/4 of a cu ft. A pallet of redi-crete (60 lb bags plus pallet) weighs about 3500 lbs so don't go to the big box store with some little bitty rice burner excuse for a P/U.

I have a small electric mixer that makes about 200 pounds of concrete when filled to the max, 3 each 60 lb bags + water. I have a similar 3PH mounted mixer. If I were doing the job, unless I had access to free helpers, I'd be taking the previously offered advice regarding delivery by a redi-mix truck. I wouldn't have the stamina to keep mixing and pouring in one session (required to avoid a cold joint) and the width of the pour is a tad wide to be easily accomodated by small loads. I would be concerned that I'd have a lot of cold joints, separate chunks of concrete only loosely associated not a monolithic chunk, even though they might be mostly connected by rebar.

I tend to overdo rebar sometimes but would have both horizontal and vertical rebar just to be sure that over time all this would remain one monolithic chunk. A previous suggestion recommended doweling the new work into the foundation but my understanding is that you have cast concrete piers but no foundation wall. It would be really good to tie the new pour to the piers, especially near the top to ensure the exposed section of the new work stays perpetually alligned with the door.

Just a personal pref but I would have the top of the pour an inch or two above the current floor's grade level. I know it could give you a "thump thump" everytime a wheeled conveyance enters or leaves but it will keep the bottom of the door and any seal out of the mud and debris which seems to always accumulate. It makes the threshold more likely to stay clear of obstructions as it will be "downhill" from the threshold to grade on either side. You can always make a ramp out of gravel to lessen the thump thump if it bothers you.

Pat

 

[Paddy]

Pat,

He does not have a slab floor yet. If he poures the trench full, his future slab will float along the "threshold". I think if he must pour this beast, he should keep it to the bottom of the future slab. This way when the slab goes in, it will sit right.

I still like the 6x6 or gravel though

Paddy

 

[VT_Kioti]

I seem to remember woking on the Interstate Highwy system here in Vermont back in the 60's. If my memory serves, we used to put 18" of crush rock (4" I think) and add sand to the top of the rock. It was then vibriated into the rock and a 8" "sand cushion" was placed on top before the pavement. That was done to give the ground a place to expand under the roadway before it got to the top. Thats why you don't see frost heaves on the interstate.
I think I would try that and place the 6X6 into the sand at the level of the door bottoms. Any heaves should disapate before getting to the top.