Oil & Fuel Fuse #2 on NH TC 35 blows with each key turn?

[Jte1]

Hello all, I'm new here, but it looks like a helpful site. I purchased a used 2005 NH TC 35 about 2 years ago with 650 hours. It now has about 820. I was using my backhoe to dig out a home site when the engine idled rough for a minute then died. Fuel filter was ready for change so did that and tried to restart, but get nothing - no starter turn over. Lights on panel do operate normally. Battery is good and all safety switches appear to be in proper position. I found fuse #2 blown and replaced, but it blew again as soon as I turned key. I followed jinman's 7-16-13 advise to Creekside 101 and pulled to wire to the cutoff fuel solenoid, but fuses still blow with each key turn. Prior owner must have had some problem as well as he used a 15 amp fuse versus the 8 in the manual and 10 often suggested here int he forum. I was using 15's also.

Not sure if it is the cutoff fuel solenoid or one of the safety switches. I don't have a lot of experience doing tractor mechanical work, but have generally been successful tracing down problems. Any suggestions would be helpful. Don't want to buy $125 solenoid if that isn't the problem. Thanks Jack.

 

[thclimer]

Jack,

Hopefully Jim will be along shortly as he is one of the experts for this situation to give you more advise.

You could search some more on fuse #2 blowing. Seems like to me if you disconnected the power to the fuel solenoid you would have eliminated it from the circuit so I don't think that would be your problem.

Good luck and let us know how you fix it.

Tim

 

[jinman]

Jack, Tim is exactly right. If you have removed the wire to the fuel solenoid, you have completely eliminated it as the problem. Do not buy a new solenoid.

Fuse #2 blowing as soon as you turn on the key is an indication of a possible problem in the operator safety circuits. As a matter of fact several folks have had bad operator safety modules. Look down on the left side of your transmission for a hex head assy with two wires that goes right into the transmission case. This is the neutral sensing switch and it's wires could be shorted to ground. The same applies for your PTO safety switch which you can see by looking into the space between the left rear tire and transmission from the rear of the tractor. Then, there's the seat switch that could be shorted or the wires going to it shorted. Finally, the cruise control circuits also rely on power from fuse #2. I doubt cruise is the problem since it is not engaged until your press the cruise switch.

I would remove your cowling under the dash and look at your relays and wiring. Several folks have mice try to set up housekeeping there. That's also where your operator safety module is located. Also, look for burned wires since the former owner had the higher rated fuse.

To remove the cowling, you have two bolts under the steering wheel and then two bolts on each side on the firewall that are accessible after raising the hood. There are three bolts on the firewall. Just remove the bottom two bolts on each side. The top one holds the dashboard in place. A 3/8 ratchet with long extension is needed to remove the bolts.

I could walk you through how to look for and trace a short, but if you are not very familiar with meters and troubleshooting, it would be extremely difficult. If you are blowing that fuse as soon as the switch is turned on and not when starting, then you need to inspect the wiring as described above to look for bare wires and shorts. Anyone can do that. Good luck!

 

[Jte1]

Thanks, I'll check those out over next couple days (when the rain stops and mud subsides) and let you know. Good it s not the solenoid I hope, I do have a multimeter and have some limited experience with it. Jack

 

[jinman]

Jack, it's very important to know if your fuse is blowing when you just turn the switch to "RUN" position or all the way to "START." If it is blowing at RUN, then there is a short in one of the circuits I mentioned. If it is blowing when you go to START, then it could be a problem with the starter solenoid.

You were using your backhoe when the tractor first died, so you changed the fuel filter. Did you not try to start the tractor as soon as it died the first time? Did it crank over at that point? Did it only start blowing the fuse after changing the filter, or perhaps was the fuse blown before and you just didn't notice?

I'm just curious about what you did when the tractor first stopped and also if you are turning the key to RUN or Start to make the fuse blow. These things make a big difference in the troubleshooting steps.

 

[Jte1]

Jim the fuse blows in the START position, but not the RUN position. I hadn't checked that before but did today.
I did attempt to start the tractor right after it died and before the fuel filter change. I got just the lights but no turn over crank. I suspect the fuse was blown or blew at that point.

I checked all the wires to the safety switches and removed the cowling. While dirty under the cowling, no wires appeared to be loose or burned there nor any by the safeties. As far as I know I don't have a cruise control on this machine.

What should I try next. You mentioned it could be the starter solenoid what can I do to test that or possible shorts in the safety wiring/module?

The 40 amp main fuse appears to be fine.

Thanks again for all your help so far. A good learning experience for me. Jack

 

[jinman]

Jack, I believe your starter solenoid is the culprit. I'd remove the starter and inspect it's operation outside the tractor. You can also use a small wire to short between the large terminal on the starter and the small wire going to the solenoid. That should give your solenoid an extra kick and may make it go back to operating correctly. If you jumper the solenoid wire and the engine turns over (leave the key off) then try it with the key right after. If it still blows, you'll need to replace or repair the starter.

Here's what happens. The solenoid has a high current to get it to engage and then a low current to hold it engaged while the starter cranks over. When the solenoid does not make proper contact, it stays in the high current mode and blows the fuse. By giving it a direct kick from the big lug on the starter, you may get the solenoid to break loose. You still could have a problem with the neutral start relay that engages the starter, but my betting money is on the starter solenoid causing your problem.

BTW: If you have to replace the starter, you can order one online for around $90. You don't have to spend the $500 + that New Holland wants for a starter.

 

[Jte1]

Jim thanks for the info, but I am a little confused. It sounds like I need jump the solenoid while the starter is in the tractor? So your first sentence to remove the starter and see what it does outside the machine is first to try then jumping the solenoid or go straight to the jump?

Where do you suggest I buy the $90 starter if I need it? Thanks again for all the help. Jack.

 

[Jte1]

Jim the solenoid kick start did the trick and tractor is running again. The fuse didn't blow, but I'll need look into that 10 amp resetting one you mention elsewhere. Great to have an expert mechanic like you here to help us less than qualified but eager to try laymen. As Tim above says you are the expert and I hardly agree. Thanks for all the help and please keep up the good work for all of us. Very relieved tractor owner, Jack.

 

[jinman]

Jack, I'm sorry I was not here to answer your questions yesterday afternoon, but I was taking my 13 year old grandson to his first major league baseball game. The Texas Rangers' ballpark is over 100 miles away, so we had to start early and got home very late. I'm thrilled that your 'kick start' worked on the starter. You interpreted my intentions correctly. I thought you would have to take the starter out, but the kick start was one last ditch effort before doing that. I'm thrilled that it worked and you are back in business. I'm also glad we finally nailed down exactly when the fuse was blowing. Otherwise, I'd have had you tearing into more things than you already had. At least now you know exactly where your relays are located if you ever have to go back into that area. You can buy the self-resetting CB on Amazon.com. You can break off the legs so it matches the legs on your old fuse and it inserts perfectly where the fuse went. You'll never have to replace fuse #2 again. There are several places that sell starters and I've posted about it several times in this forum with links. If you decide you need one, PM me and I'll get that link to you.