GeorgeSB
New member
Fuel cap and well weaknesses. A dangerous situation by design, dangerous for the tractor's engine.
Kioti DK35, early 2003 build.
I use the term, "conspiracy" to mean that one design weakness we might get away with but when combined with another and another and add environmental factors and even operator error(s), we can lose the tractor, tractor's engine or cost us dearly.
I'll be up front and not hide anything about the situation. Unfortunately I don't have a protective storage for my tractor, she sits outdoors.
This situation I'm about to describe could occur to any tractor operating or caught in weather with this Kioti design.
I love my Kioti tractor. She's served me very well all these years. She's saved lives. She's pulled cars out of snow drifts and brought mothers and children home to safety when otherwise they would have been trapped in the horrible winter storms. She's made easy work out of large tasks. I don't know how we ever lived without this tractor. I use her quite often. I've got somewhere around 650 + hours (not sure because the cheaply made with plastic part, tachometer cable was broken for a time. Another weak design for another story.)
The Kioti design is generally robust. The engine is strong and many aspects of the design are very forgiving. But I've run across some really weak areas of the design. Some of these weaknesses floor me. I don't think Kioti should have been so cheap? I don't know how else to put it.
I want to speak to just one here. The fuel filling spout, protection, and overflow. Clean and water-free fuel is paramount for a fuel injected diesel motor. Everyone knows. But Kioti design engineers/production cost control people blew it IMHO.
On my Kioti DK35 tractor there is a fuel spout on top of the tractor. I find it difficult to refill with a 5 gallon container of fuel. There isn't an easy way. I have a spout that works quite well. But one must lift the 5 gallons on top of the machine and balance my feet on a tire or something to get high enough to tip the container. But that's not the concern. I'm certain there are many clever ways around this. And if you have a fuel container or a pump, it's hardly worth mentioning. For a small operator like myself it's an inconvenience at most. This isn't the issue I'm going to address.
The fuel filling spout has a cap. The cap is surrounded by a well with a drain. The cap and well are covered with a lid. Here's the problems. The problems can conspire to do harm to your tractor.
The lid is extremely cheaply made and flimsy and of a plastic that deteriorates in the sun and is very vulnerable to wind. In some environments it is totally inadequate. What we have here in high plains Colorado is ample sun and constant wind. I've gone through several lids now. The lid is a very weak design. Crazy weak design. There is also no fastener to hold the lid down against strong winds. It just flops down by gravity into position. The lid also isn't sealed. Water from heavy rains can get past the lid and go down to where the fuel cap and well are sitting above the motor. Almost certainly, water will get past the lid in wind driven rain at times. If that lid should lift the rain gets in. If even a spec of debris is in there, water will gleefully get past the lid. If the lid lifts and breaks, which has happened to me twice now, there is no protection at all, be it marginal to begin with.
I've had a terrible situation where the fuel lid broke off and very heavy wind-driven rains fell onto the fuel spout cap. That would not be a problem by itself. But with the well surrounding the spout having a lip above the bottom of the fuel cap, the well can fill adequately in heavy rains to reach the height of the very bottom of the fuel cap when snugged down, then capillary action can draw water into the fuel tank. This can happen even with the fuel cap on properly and tightly. (the people I bought it from had it cross threaded when I bought it and could barely get it off. Accidental cross-threading could make the cap much more vulnerable to capillary action. This cap and thread could be better designed as well.) And it can happen with an in tact lid on. Just a few lifts of the lid by wind and wind-driven rain flows down past it.
Of course all of these weaknesses are exacerbated if any of the following apply:
Cross threaded cap
Cap that doesn't perfectly seal
Thread are no longer perfect
The tractor isn't pitched favorably for the well to drain quickly
Debris in the well drain
Heavy rains
High winds
Broken or missing fuel lid
Debris in the fuel lid interface to the tractor body
Others ...
One day my wife complained the tractor was hard to start. I had no idea what the problem was. I looked it into long enough to finally learn there was some water in the fuel. I had to tow it back to my garage. The repairs took a lot of work, research, labor, and perseverance. Fortunately for me I ended up having only had to replace the glow plugs. I ended up replacing the heater glow plugs after taking quite a bit of the fuel delivery system apart, draining and replacing fuel. My tractor was down a week or so. I was very worried I'd never recover the engine. But fortunately, the engine is robust, I got her going again. She's been serving flawlessly for some time since.
Here are the measures I've taken to prevent a recurrence. I tore out the rubber well that the fuel spout and cap sit in. If there is a fuel overflow while refueling, yes, it might get onto something, instead of neatly going down the overflow drain tube to the ground. But it's worth it! It is now extremely difficult for moisture, water, to stand at all in the area of the fuel cap. It's virtually impossible for water to stand high enough in any way to be drawn into the system from underneath the marginal cap. Also I'm no top of keeping the lid replaced as they break and fail over time. I've even covered the engine with plastic or other materials to keep heavy rains from pooling onto the fuel door lid. I am extremely careful to slowly start the cap threading and once i know it is correct then completely tighten her all the way down. I frequently visually check the area around the fuel cap for any standing water, right after rains.
I'm not going to mention the weak and short-lived fuel bowl "pot" that is talked about elsewhere. I just ordered a replacement. I don't think it has anything to do with the water issue.
I've not seen a recurrence of the problem since the repairs and changes. That is true in spite of heavy rains for many days and high winds as well. I also added frequent checks of the fuel pot for water potential or coloration. Will be more difficult with the new designed fuel pot that is milky colored. Darn!
I may at some point design and build a better fuel lid door with a latch and a water-tight seal in a manner that should and could have been included in the original design by Kioti. I also feel rather "forced" into finding the cash (I'm retired) to self-build a garage just for this tractor. She seems weak to the environment in numerous ways covered elsewhere (sun does a number on destroying all the plastic, the seats, the hydraulic lines. The wind drives dirt into the poorly designed shifter linkages and other moving parts, so we have to clean and lube quite often, etc.) . I may also study the fuel cap more carefully and if I don't think it is adequate, order a cap that seals better.
It's shortcomings like this the befuddle me in the Kioti design and build department. Taking short-cuts where so little effort and cost would be involved in a better way. I've seen a number of short-cuts now in the Kioti design, some affect safety, some affect longevity, some affect operations, some affect our backs. This is the disappointment of the Kioti. I have no idea if you'd find similar problems in other tractors, such as Kubota, Deere, Ford, New Holland, etc. This is the one and only tractor I've ever owned. I still love my Kioti. I've just had to learn and adapt and make some improvements of my own.
Kioti DK35, early 2003 build.
I use the term, "conspiracy" to mean that one design weakness we might get away with but when combined with another and another and add environmental factors and even operator error(s), we can lose the tractor, tractor's engine or cost us dearly.
I'll be up front and not hide anything about the situation. Unfortunately I don't have a protective storage for my tractor, she sits outdoors.
This situation I'm about to describe could occur to any tractor operating or caught in weather with this Kioti design.
I love my Kioti tractor. She's served me very well all these years. She's saved lives. She's pulled cars out of snow drifts and brought mothers and children home to safety when otherwise they would have been trapped in the horrible winter storms. She's made easy work out of large tasks. I don't know how we ever lived without this tractor. I use her quite often. I've got somewhere around 650 + hours (not sure because the cheaply made with plastic part, tachometer cable was broken for a time. Another weak design for another story.)
The Kioti design is generally robust. The engine is strong and many aspects of the design are very forgiving. But I've run across some really weak areas of the design. Some of these weaknesses floor me. I don't think Kioti should have been so cheap? I don't know how else to put it.
I want to speak to just one here. The fuel filling spout, protection, and overflow. Clean and water-free fuel is paramount for a fuel injected diesel motor. Everyone knows. But Kioti design engineers/production cost control people blew it IMHO.
On my Kioti DK35 tractor there is a fuel spout on top of the tractor. I find it difficult to refill with a 5 gallon container of fuel. There isn't an easy way. I have a spout that works quite well. But one must lift the 5 gallons on top of the machine and balance my feet on a tire or something to get high enough to tip the container. But that's not the concern. I'm certain there are many clever ways around this. And if you have a fuel container or a pump, it's hardly worth mentioning. For a small operator like myself it's an inconvenience at most. This isn't the issue I'm going to address.
The fuel filling spout has a cap. The cap is surrounded by a well with a drain. The cap and well are covered with a lid. Here's the problems. The problems can conspire to do harm to your tractor.
The lid is extremely cheaply made and flimsy and of a plastic that deteriorates in the sun and is very vulnerable to wind. In some environments it is totally inadequate. What we have here in high plains Colorado is ample sun and constant wind. I've gone through several lids now. The lid is a very weak design. Crazy weak design. There is also no fastener to hold the lid down against strong winds. It just flops down by gravity into position. The lid also isn't sealed. Water from heavy rains can get past the lid and go down to where the fuel cap and well are sitting above the motor. Almost certainly, water will get past the lid in wind driven rain at times. If that lid should lift the rain gets in. If even a spec of debris is in there, water will gleefully get past the lid. If the lid lifts and breaks, which has happened to me twice now, there is no protection at all, be it marginal to begin with.
I've had a terrible situation where the fuel lid broke off and very heavy wind-driven rains fell onto the fuel spout cap. That would not be a problem by itself. But with the well surrounding the spout having a lip above the bottom of the fuel cap, the well can fill adequately in heavy rains to reach the height of the very bottom of the fuel cap when snugged down, then capillary action can draw water into the fuel tank. This can happen even with the fuel cap on properly and tightly. (the people I bought it from had it cross threaded when I bought it and could barely get it off. Accidental cross-threading could make the cap much more vulnerable to capillary action. This cap and thread could be better designed as well.) And it can happen with an in tact lid on. Just a few lifts of the lid by wind and wind-driven rain flows down past it.
Of course all of these weaknesses are exacerbated if any of the following apply:
Cross threaded cap
Cap that doesn't perfectly seal
Thread are no longer perfect
The tractor isn't pitched favorably for the well to drain quickly
Debris in the well drain
Heavy rains
High winds
Broken or missing fuel lid
Debris in the fuel lid interface to the tractor body
Others ...
One day my wife complained the tractor was hard to start. I had no idea what the problem was. I looked it into long enough to finally learn there was some water in the fuel. I had to tow it back to my garage. The repairs took a lot of work, research, labor, and perseverance. Fortunately for me I ended up having only had to replace the glow plugs. I ended up replacing the heater glow plugs after taking quite a bit of the fuel delivery system apart, draining and replacing fuel. My tractor was down a week or so. I was very worried I'd never recover the engine. But fortunately, the engine is robust, I got her going again. She's been serving flawlessly for some time since.
Here are the measures I've taken to prevent a recurrence. I tore out the rubber well that the fuel spout and cap sit in. If there is a fuel overflow while refueling, yes, it might get onto something, instead of neatly going down the overflow drain tube to the ground. But it's worth it! It is now extremely difficult for moisture, water, to stand at all in the area of the fuel cap. It's virtually impossible for water to stand high enough in any way to be drawn into the system from underneath the marginal cap. Also I'm no top of keeping the lid replaced as they break and fail over time. I've even covered the engine with plastic or other materials to keep heavy rains from pooling onto the fuel door lid. I am extremely careful to slowly start the cap threading and once i know it is correct then completely tighten her all the way down. I frequently visually check the area around the fuel cap for any standing water, right after rains.
I'm not going to mention the weak and short-lived fuel bowl "pot" that is talked about elsewhere. I just ordered a replacement. I don't think it has anything to do with the water issue.
I've not seen a recurrence of the problem since the repairs and changes. That is true in spite of heavy rains for many days and high winds as well. I also added frequent checks of the fuel pot for water potential or coloration. Will be more difficult with the new designed fuel pot that is milky colored. Darn!
I may at some point design and build a better fuel lid door with a latch and a water-tight seal in a manner that should and could have been included in the original design by Kioti. I also feel rather "forced" into finding the cash (I'm retired) to self-build a garage just for this tractor. She seems weak to the environment in numerous ways covered elsewhere (sun does a number on destroying all the plastic, the seats, the hydraulic lines. The wind drives dirt into the poorly designed shifter linkages and other moving parts, so we have to clean and lube quite often, etc.) . I may also study the fuel cap more carefully and if I don't think it is adequate, order a cap that seals better.
It's shortcomings like this the befuddle me in the Kioti design and build department. Taking short-cuts where so little effort and cost would be involved in a better way. I've seen a number of short-cuts now in the Kioti design, some affect safety, some affect longevity, some affect operations, some affect our backs. This is the disappointment of the Kioti. I have no idea if you'd find similar problems in other tractors, such as Kubota, Deere, Ford, New Holland, etc. This is the one and only tractor I've ever owned. I still love my Kioti. I've just had to learn and adapt and make some improvements of my own.
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