Powerhorse
Bronze Member
A friend of mine has a 53 or 54 Ford NAA that will not run. He has spark at the points but not at the cap. Any ideas on what this could be caused by?
Ford NAA will not run
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LD1
Epic Contributor
What do you mean no spark at the cap???
you mean no spark comming out of a wire off the cap???
The points conrtol the coil. The coil feeds the middle of the cap through the secondary wire (like a plug wire). The rotor feeds the outer 4 terminals of the cap. The outer terminals feed the plug wires and then the plug.
Somewhere in there, a resistor may be used.
So, IF you have no spark at the cap, it could be any of the following:
1. Wire going from points to coil
2. Hot wire feeding the coil...The coil has 2 primary wires. 1 feeds it power. The other is it signal comming off the points.
3. Coil itself
4. The secondary coil wire feeding the cap(the one that looks like a plug wire)
5. The rotor
6. The cap itself
Just follow the course of power and see where it stops. By jumping from the points straight to the cap, you missed a lot of things
you mean no spark comming out of a wire off the cap???
The points conrtol the coil. The coil feeds the middle of the cap through the secondary wire (like a plug wire). The rotor feeds the outer 4 terminals of the cap. The outer terminals feed the plug wires and then the plug.
Somewhere in there, a resistor may be used.
So, IF you have no spark at the cap, it could be any of the following:
1. Wire going from points to coil
2. Hot wire feeding the coil...The coil has 2 primary wires. 1 feeds it power. The other is it signal comming off the points.
3. Coil itself
4. The secondary coil wire feeding the cap(the one that looks like a plug wire)
5. The rotor
6. The cap itself
Just follow the course of power and see where it stops. By jumping from the points straight to the cap, you missed a lot of things
OP
Powerhorse
Bronze Member
I'm only stating what he told me. He said that the cap, rotor, coil, wires, ignition switch, points, condenser and spark plugs are new. The tractor ran fine when all this was changed about a month ago, then just died, it will occasionally fire but runs really bad then dies out again.
jinman
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Powerhorse, I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, but LD1 has given good advice. The problem here is that we are trying to troubleshoot via an online forum (hard job) and do it through a friend of the person having the problem (nearly impossible job). There are steps your friend could easily take to correct his problem, but by the time it gets interpreted and described through about three sources, it often won't make much sense. That said, I would take the wire from the coil out of the distributor cap, remove the cap so I could get to the points, rotate the engine so the points are closed, turn on the ignition, hold the coil wire close to a ground, open the points with a screw drive or your finger. If the coil wire sparks to ground, then the problem is in the cap, rotor, or plug wire miswiring.
Do you know if your friend's NAA is 12 volt or the original 6 volt system? Is he using a 12 volt coil with an internal resistor? Is he using the 6 volt coil with an external ballast resistor? Did he put a 12 volt coil with a internal resistor on a 6 volt system? These are just a handful of questions we don't know because your friend is not posting to TBN. We want to help, but please know that with lots of people give troubleshooting tips and your being a go-between, it may get much more complicated than it has to be.
Do you know if your friend's NAA is 12 volt or the original 6 volt system? Is he using a 12 volt coil with an internal resistor? Is he using the 6 volt coil with an external ballast resistor? Did he put a 12 volt coil with a internal resistor on a 6 volt system? These are just a handful of questions we don't know because your friend is not posting to TBN. We want to help, but please know that with lots of people give troubleshooting tips and your being a go-between, it may get much more complicated than it has to be.
tmajor
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LD1 missed one thing, I believe, .. shorted condenser.
Edit: No, I guess, that wouldn't do it, if there is spark across the points. Unless, it was intermittent.
Edit: No, I guess, that wouldn't do it, if there is spark across the points. Unless, it was intermittent.
LD1
Epic Contributor
If you have a good Idea of how the ignition system works, then follow it through and find out where the power/spark quits working.
If not:
We know you have spark at the points.
Basically, how the coil works is that it is supplied 6v of power on the primary windings. Those are the outer two little terminals. Verify that you have 6v to the wire comming off the key.
Now what happens is (when the points are closed) the other terminal is grounded. This charges those primary windings with 6v creating a magnetic field. When the breaker points open, the 6v's is lost. Thus collapsing the magnetic field and inducing a high voltage spike into the secondary winding. That is the one connected to the coil wire.
So if you have 6v at the coil and spark at the condenser, do as jinman suggested and see if you have spark comming out of the coil.
The spark there leaves the coil and goes into the center terminal at the rotor cap. The spark is then distributed through the rotor and to the appropriate plug wire that should fire back out through the 4 outer terminals in the cap.
My guess is that you dont have any spark comming out of the coil. Because IF the points are sparking, that means the coil IS getting juice to the primarys.
I would say this very well could be a case of...your friend bought the wrong coil.
IF someone converted it to a 12v system, the OEM 6v coil wont work. And IF it is still OEM 6v system, just a standard $10 coil from NAPA is 12v, and that wont work either.
Good luck and please report back.
If not:
We know you have spark at the points.
Basically, how the coil works is that it is supplied 6v of power on the primary windings. Those are the outer two little terminals. Verify that you have 6v to the wire comming off the key.
Now what happens is (when the points are closed) the other terminal is grounded. This charges those primary windings with 6v creating a magnetic field. When the breaker points open, the 6v's is lost. Thus collapsing the magnetic field and inducing a high voltage spike into the secondary winding. That is the one connected to the coil wire.
So if you have 6v at the coil and spark at the condenser, do as jinman suggested and see if you have spark comming out of the coil.
The spark there leaves the coil and goes into the center terminal at the rotor cap. The spark is then distributed through the rotor and to the appropriate plug wire that should fire back out through the 4 outer terminals in the cap.
My guess is that you dont have any spark comming out of the coil. Because IF the points are sparking, that means the coil IS getting juice to the primarys.
I would say this very well could be a case of...your friend bought the wrong coil.
IF someone converted it to a 12v system, the OEM 6v coil wont work. And IF it is still OEM 6v system, just a standard $10 coil from NAPA is 12v, and that wont work either.
Good luck and please report back.
OP
Powerhorse
Bronze Member
Ok, i printed this info out and handed it to him. He is going to further troubleshoot. Then tractor is a 6 volt system with an 8 volt battery. I will post back when he figures this out. Thanks for all the replies... I appreciate the help.
Soundguy
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yuck.. 6v with an 8v battery.
he really needs to get that corrected. either move to 12v, or get it charging and starting on 6v. 8v creates a whole host of problems.. big one is that a 6v genny won't adequately charge an 8v battery unless the vreg is modified. and if it is.. then you have issues with lamp voltage and ignition current.
soundguy
he really needs to get that corrected. either move to 12v, or get it charging and starting on 6v. 8v creates a whole host of problems.. big one is that a 6v genny won't adequately charge an 8v battery unless the vreg is modified. and if it is.. then you have issues with lamp voltage and ignition current.
soundguy
OP
Powerhorse
Bronze Member
Soundguy said:
I'll pass this info along to him. Thanks soundguy