Ford 861 knocking after valve job/ head gasket

[HeadacheFordTractor]

Hello, this is my first post, thank you in advance for any advice you guys can give me for dealing with my ford tractor issues. I have a 1958 ford 861 tractor with gas engine. I recently took the head in and had a valve job done since compression was low in all cylinders. After reinstalling the head there's a knocking sound at the top rear of the engine that wasn't there before the valve job. I'm hoping someone can help me out with possible causes and solutions to this problem. I really don't want to throw a rod and have oil, coolant or any other fluids spilled in my garden or my pasture. I don't want to have to rebuild or replace my engine either since that would cost more than the tractor is worth. I have some mechanical ability, but I'm not a mechanic, and would not be confident taking on the rebuild job myself. So I'm asking you guys what do you think is the issue, and what will fix it?

 

[Scook222]

How long was the head off and was the engine covered while the head was off. Did you clean all the old gasket off the block carefully without getting any pieces of gaskets in the lifter holes. Also did you check and see it the push rods were worn or slightly bent when you pulled the head. If it wasn’t knocking before the valve job, it could be a lifter or rod not seated or the valve not adjusted correctly. It would make a slight knock, unlike a rod knock, and be higher up on the motor. On most tractors you can set the valves close with the motor cold, the set them with the engine warm with a feeler gauge. I’m not sure if they are set cold or warm on your tractor, it should be with the torque specs. If that doesn’t correct it I would consider rebuilding the motor since you have already done the top end. As for overhauling the motor, some tractors you can do an inframe rebuild without splitting the tractor but it makes it impossible replace rear main seals. If you can set the valves, you would be able to do a rebuild pretty easy. On motors I have done, wet sleeves for the piston come out easier than dry sleeves. A machine shop could possibly just hone the cylinders and put in the next size rings on the pistons. If that is the case it would just be the cost of the rings, rings, gaskets and bearings. I have a parts store that I go to and the with mic the crankshaft and bearings and see if the crankshaft needs to be turned it’s kinda cheating that way but I get my parts from him so it doesn’t cost much, if anything and he has done it for years. I rebuilt an A farmall a few years ago and I’m pretty sure I did it for less than $600. It might have been alittle more than than because I added electric starter and I few other things. You would be surprised what a “painted not restored” antique tractor will sell for.

 

[HeadacheFordTractor]

you asked alot of questions, I will try to answer them all. The head was off for 8 days and engine was uncovered the entire time out in a portable carport. Yes I cleaned all of the old head gasket off of the block,
but it is possible that some small pieces may have gotten inside the holes. I checked the push-rods, they looked good and straight to me. I also went back this morning and removed the valve train, checked the push-rods again, re-torqued the valve train, and reset the valves. I then started the tractor and made a short video so you can hear what I'm talking about, here's the link to my video -https://youtu.be/EY_DiUyk9rs Like I said I am not a mechanic, you make it sound easy to do a rebuild, but to be honest the valve job is above my skill level and I probably should not have attempted it without supervision. Since I need my tractor and I do not have anyone qualified to supervise, or money to hire someone at $80 per hr or more, I decided to try doing it myself. This is my first tractor, and it's been nothing but a pain in the *** since I brought it home. The only good thing I can say is that I brought it home in non running condition, and after over a year of headaches I finally got it running. But now it's broke down again. I'm so sick of not having it running when I need it I'm seriously considering giving up on homesteading after 4 years of trying my best to do what I need to do with the little I have.

How long was the head off and was the engine covered while the head was off. Did you clean all the old gasket off the block carefully without getting any pieces of gaskets in the lifter holes. Also did you check and see it the push rods were worn or slightly bent when you pulled the head. If it wasn稚 knocking before the valve job, it could be a lifter or rod not seated or the valve not adjusted correctly. It would make a slight knock, unlike a rod knock, and be higher up on the motor. On most tractors you can set the valves close with the motor cold, the set them with the engine warm with a feeler gauge. I知 not sure if they are set cold or warm on your tractor, it should be with the torque specs. If that doesn稚 correct it I would consider rebuilding the motor since you have already done the top end. As for overhauling the motor, some tractors you can do an inframe rebuild without splitting the tractor but it makes it impossible replace rear main seals. If you can set the valves, you would be able to do a rebuild pretty easy. On motors I have done, wet sleeves for the piston come out easier than dry sleeves. A machine shop could possibly just hone the cylinders and put in the next size rings on the pistons. If that is the case it would just be the cost of the rings, rings, gaskets and bearings. I have a parts store that I go to and the with mic the crankshaft and bearings and see if the crankshaft needs to be turned it痴 kinda cheating that way but I get my parts from him so it doesn稚 cost much, if anything and he has done it for years. I rebuilt an A farmall a few years ago and I知 pretty sure I did it for less than $600. It might have been alittle more than than because I added electric starter and I few other things. You would be surprised what a 菟ainted not restored antique tractor will sell for.

 

[ruffdog]

The video:

 

[ovrszd]

Applying the KISS principle.

Something you touched is causing the knock.

Are you sure the valves are adjusted correctly?

Does the tractor miss when you rev it up or does it seem to run fine, excluding the knock?

Things to try.... Pull valve cover. Start engine and let it idle. Loosen valve adjusters one at a time, no change in knock, retighten, move to next. This will tell you if something in the valve train is causing the knock.

Sometimes, rarely, fixing valve leakage will put more pressure on bottom end and cause problems. This happens because you increase compression psi beyond what the worn out bottom end can stand. I've never been a fan of a valve job without bottom end work.

Did the engine smoke out the exhaust??? Or did it have excessive blow by out the crankcase breather in the valve cover????

These two things will guide you to the low compression problem.

Anxious to hear a solution. Hopefully someone else will chime in with better advice. RickB would diagnose this quickly.

 

[Scook222]

I couldn’t determine the sound in the video but it didn’t sound like a major knock. One thing I forgot to mention was to have the valve cover off and crank the tractor and make sure all of the rocker arms are oiling. It could be as simple as an Oiler not getting enough oil on the rocker arms. Manuals, parts breakdowns, and YouTube videos make working on the engines a lot easier. If you want to homestead just have patience and a little tinkering on things will go along way. There is a learning curve to it and it’s always frustrating the first time you do something you haven’t ever done before and it needs to be done yesterday. Everything I have learned to work on besides airplanes, I have had someone help or show me because it costs a lot to pay someone else to fix it. I enjoy working on stuff but it can be extremely frustrating at times until you get everything just the way you want it.

 

[HeadacheFordTractor]

How do I know for sure that it's properly oiling?

I couldn稚 determine the sound in the video but it didn稚 sound like a major knock. One thing I forgot to mention was to have the valve cover off and crank the tractor and make sure all of the rocker arms are oiling. It could be as simple as an Oiler not getting enough oil on the rocker arms. Manuals, parts breakdowns, and YouTube videos make working on the engines a lot easier. If you want to homestead just have patience and a little tinkering on things will go along way. There is a learning curve to it and it痴 always frustrating the first time you do something you haven稚 ever done before and it needs to be done yesterday. Everything I have learned to work on besides airplanes, I have had someone help or show me because it costs a lot to pay someone else to fix it. I enjoy working on stuff but it can be extremely frustrating at times until you get everything just the way you want it.

 

[HeadacheFordTractor]

I went back and adjusted the valves using the method described in the I&T Shop Service manual / Ford shop manual. Each tappet is set on the loose side of .015 feeler gauge.
The tractor does not miss when reved up. Seems to smooth out a bit at higher RPMs.
I plan to pull the valve cover and let it run and loosen the valve adjusters as you described tomorrow morning. If this doesn't help I plan to drop the oil pan and see what I find.
After the valve job and head gasket I have 120-125 lbs of compression in each cylinder. Not perfect but should be plenty for a 60 year old tractor.
There was a little smoke at the first restart, stopped smoking after a minute or two, I assumed this was the atf i dribbled in each cylinder when I was reinstalling the head.

Applying the KISS principle.

Something you touched is causing the knock.

Are you sure the valves are adjusted correctly?

Does the tractor miss when you rev it up or does it seem to run fine, excluding the knock?

Things to try.... Pull valve cover. Start engine and let it idle. Loosen valve adjusters one at a time, no change in knock, retighten, move to next. This will tell you if something in the valve train is causing the knock.

Sometimes, rarely, fixing valve leakage will put more pressure on bottom end and cause problems. This happens because you increase compression psi beyond what the worn out bottom end can stand. I've never been a fan of a valve job without bottom end work.

Did the engine smoke out the exhaust??? Or did it have excessive blow by out the crankcase breather in the valve cover????

These two things will guide you to the low compression problem.

Anxious to hear a solution. Hopefully someone else will chime in with better advice. RickB would diagnose this quickly.

 

[ruffdog]

Sometimes a mechanic's stethoscope helps to locate a noise. You can also use a long screwdriver with the handle against your ear or a length of hose while you listen in one end.

 

[Scook222]

Each rocker arm should drip alittle oil while it’s running and run down where the push rods are away from the valves. You can base it off the amount of oil that the other rocker arms are dripping. If one is dripping a lot less, it has alittle trash in the oil passage that goes through the repacked arm shaft.