ford 850 oil no pressure

[randhoff]

I just picked up a ford 850 from a tractor flipper who could not get it to run. My main concern at this moment is when I first looked at it the sellers partner was still trying to make it run. They picked it up on a trade. The previous owner said it would not start after sitting for over a year. They put points, coil, plugs carb rebuild . It would start but run only for a minute. I was there looking at it because the owner was giving up and just wanted to unload it. while I was there the mans partner was still playing with it. He started it and it ran for 30 seconds then quit. I notice the oil pressure gage did not register anything. I asked him about it.He said none of the gages worked. He also said the previous owner thought it needed a carb rebuild because it sat so long. I ended up buying it and when I got it home. I changed the oil. When I took off the oil filter cartridge cover. I saw that it was bone dry. It had not see any oil in a long time. My heart sank I thought of how many times they had it running with no oil pressure. I figured I just bought a yard ornament . I pulled the distributor, use a flex drill extender that fitted on the oil pump. I spun it with a cordless drill. I could hear the oil going thru the engine and then the oil pressure gauge show a reading. I remember reading on one of these forums that some lose there prime after sitting for a long time. I put the distributor back on and started it , Still no oil pressure. Shut it off I removed the oil gauge from the line started it and nothing came out. I shut it off. I removed the oil filter there was oil in it. but I figured it was from when I spun the pump with drill. I left the filter off and turned the tractor over not starting. And no oil came out. I figured I should see oil come out that port just turning it over? So I can spin the pump with a drill and oil will move. But the distributor won't pump any? would you think the pump is worn as it will pump with a drill at a higher speed? It was a cordless drill not a electric high speed. I mad sure the distributor was seated. I think it would not seat unless its on the pump shaft. So what would you guys think? A worn oil pump or funky distributor? I hope its not completely hosed from the last guys running it with out oil pressure. Not knowing the tractors history I don't know if the pressure problem is from sitting so long. Thanks for reading

 

[pmsmechanic]

Sometimes you can get lucky. I wouldn't give up yet. I'm guessing that if you can get oil pressure by spinning the oil pump then there is an issue with the oil pump to distributor drive coupling. Check there first. How hard is it to pull the oil pan? You might need to pull the oil pump out anyways to replace pieces. While your there pull a few rod caps furthest away from the oil pump as they seem to be the bearings that run out of oil first. You might be able to get away with just replacing bearings on the crank and a few other parts.

 

[randhoff]

I will drop the pan today . The hex shaft on the pump was ok on both ends. The distributor bottom shaft looked ok. Ok I know nothing about bearings. You are saying to pull the ones towards the back? What am I looking for? worn metal ? Is there some kind of play or clearance I should look for? How do you tell a good bearing from a bad? what else should I look for when you say a few other parts? Thanks for taking the time to answer. I really appreciate it!

 

[pmsmechanic]

The connecting rod bearings are the first to wear if there is poor oil pressure so that's why I said to check the ones furthest away from the oil pump as that's generally where low oil pressure wear shows up first. You can plastigauge the bearings to see what clearance they have if you really want to know how much wear they have. A general rule of thumb is that if you can hook your fingernail on a scratch in the crank then it should be reground but I've seen people get away with a lot deeper scratch than that. If a bearing is badly worn it'll may be discolored from heat or have deep scratches in it. You'll see it as soon as you have one off. A few other parts. You need to figure out why the distributor is not turning the oil pump and repair that. you might also need a new oil pan gasket.

 

[madamos]

Here is a long shot, I have seen the gear where it is pinned to the distributor shaft sheaf the pin allowing the distributor to turn intermittently. The gear can stick at or near the right spot and allow the engine to try and start but the load from pumping oil then causes it to slip on the shaft resulting in no oil pressure and very intermittent starting.

 

[Soundguy]

i'd agree with all posts. DO drop the pan, look at the pump and drive nad make sure it is really driving.. and for sure pull a rod beairng.

all depends on how long it was run.

the dry oil filter is a bad sign

 

[randhoff]

I never did drop that pan yet. I was looking at a ford shop manual my brother bought years ago. Its 1955 to 1960. models 600 to 1801. He bought a 620 with a Sherman backhoe and front loader. It also has the Sherman Hi low Tranny. The book was showing a bearing removal tool. And how to make one from 2 cotter pins. I figured I go to NAPA and pick one up. There is one person at NAPA who knows all about the tractors and the parts. I gotten a lot info from him and the different post you guys have answer all these years. But if he is not there the others can only look up numbers. Anyways NAPA closes at noon. It was 12:15 I went to Auto Zone they had nothing. Went to the Advance Auto. The lady said they had had crank n pulley pullers and others but no main bearing tools. I asked about the plastic gauges that the book show. They had none. I showed her the book showing how to make one from two 1/8 inch cotter pins. She sold me the cotter pins. When back home was looking on the net at different photos of bearing. They what they look like were worn and what to look for and measure. Then I saw Madamos? post about the distributor failing under load. I went out to the tractor . All my tools were still around it. I had play with it till 930 last night. The oil filter was still off from last night. I pulled the distributor and put my rod into the oil pump. I turn it about 1/2 turn and I heard oil coming out the oil filter port. Just 1/2 turn on the oil pump, was enough to squirt oil. I though that pump must be working. I put the filter back on and ran the drill about 2 minutes. Got about 20lbs on the pressure gauge. I set the distributor back in the hole and it seated right away. Last night I had a hard time getting it to seat where I wanted it. I took off the oil filter and cranked the motor and oil came out the port. It would not do that last night. I pulled it out and looked at it and it seem ok nothing was loose or slipping. I went down to the barn where my brothers 600 been sleeping under a tarp. I pulled the distributor out of that. And compared them. Mine looked better. The 600 one had a lot of play almost a 1/4 inch up and down the shaft. I decide to put mine back in . I thought maybe there was a seating problem. I put the flywheel back to 5% before TDC and set my distributor back in. This all took awhile. It was about 830 now. I tighten it down. Put cap and plugs and wires back on. left coil wire off.Turn the engine over and it squirted oil out the port. I put the filter on and coil wire.Turn the key and it started right up. No oil pressure. I shut it off. Took off the oil filter. turned it over, no oil came out the port. Maybe this Madamos? guy had a point. I pulled the distributor. Now its about 930and I am working by flash light. Its not sitting near any buildings. Grabbed the distributor from the 600. Took off the points and cap. Cleaned it up put the points and cap from mine on it. Set the hog back to 5% B TDC, dropped it in. tighten it down put dust cover cap and plug wires on. Turn it over and oil cam out the filter port. I put the filter on turn the key and it would not start. I turned the distributor a little. then it would fire. I turned it a little more and it started. the gauge showed slight movement right a way. then it slowly went up to about 10 lbs. I let it run a minute or 2 it was 5 lbs at idle it went up to 10 when I speed it up . It hat been running a couple minutes. I noticed the muffler was cherry red so I shut it off. I quit for the night. I still have to pull the pan and check the bearings. I assume it should be 30 to 40 lbs?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

When I was about 15 I talked dad into buying the second 800. It was a well worn 861. When we went down a step bank where the dealer unloaded it to oil pressure would drop to zero. They took it back to the shop and put in new rod and main bearings and we ran it for years before we rebuilt the engine. Since you know it will run with oil pressure I would consider the price of all new bearing a good investment. Hopefully the crank is still fine. Back in the day we could get bearings a few thousands thicker to compensate for crank wear.

Keep us posted.

 

[randhoff]

is this thing safe to move? I like to put it in barn. If it might cause more damage I will leave it where it is. The muffler getting red hot what would cause that. I did not put a timing light on it or play with carb. I do not want to run it for any period of time if it might cause more problems.

 

[randhoff]

I had another question . Does any one know how For increased the horsepower on the 172. I see the newer series say the 671 was about 8HP more. I see in the specs that the compression was higher in those motors. Do you think it was something in the head or carburation?