Ford 555C making oil / Fuel control?

[AlanB]

My Ford 555C has started making oil, while normally things that produce oil would make me very happy, somehow I suspect it is just moving an oily substance around within the motor which makes me a little unhappy.

The last thing I did on the hoe was to change the o-ring seals in the top of the fuel control, they were shot and leaking. Following my normal course of troubleshooting, I always suspect the last thing that was touched as the most likely culprit.

I suspect that the seal in the front of the fuel control is leaking as well, or maybe more as probably sealing the top up, forced it to go to the next weaker seal.

Utilizing my well calibrated nasal gas chromatograph I am pretty sure what I drained was diesel added to my oil, but am not positive. The oil viscosity also appeared substantially thinner and I did not see any emulsion.

Also as I drained it, it had the "bubbles" that I associate with Diesel.

I will probably speak with the oil lab that I work with and see if they can look at it and give me some insight.

I am also "loosing" power steering fluid (TDH oil) which I imagine could also be going in there, and would also reduce viscosity, but the oil around the pump and piston area makes me think it is just leaking around the normal area's.

So, my questions would be

1. Is there a way to positively prove / disprove the front seal on the fuel control?

2. Anyone seen something similar, something to look for that I am missing?

3. Should I just use the fuel control shop that the local guys use, or should I send it out to someone? (anyone on the board do these controls?)

4. Related question, anyone used one of those CD copy manuals they are selling on e-bay? $25 sure sounds a lot better then $150, at that price I think it is worth the risk, but would feel better if someone had used one already.

Thanks for your thoughts and input.

 

[EddieWalker]

Alan,

Sure wish I could help, but I just don't understand what's happening. Is the oil and diesel mixing? Is one or the other leaking out of the engine?

Pics might help.

Eddie

 

[RickB]

An engine oil analysis will tell you what is diluting your engine oil.
Any reputable injection pump shop should be able to R&R the shaft seal, if that is the problem; find one that a trusted acquaintance vouches for. It's not rocket science, and not worth shipping your pump halfway across the country to get done.
Power steering pump shaft seals leak more often than injection pump shaft seals.

 

[AlanB]

Thanks Guys,

Eddie, not much to take pictures of, basicly I checked my oil and found I had an extra 2 quarts or so of "oil" (fluid may be more appropriate) in my oil pan. Basicly the stick had oil 2" above the "full" mark. Looking for best guesses as to where it is coming from. (or a definitive way to check)

I will take a sample by the Oil lab tomorrow and see what they can run on it for me. Good time for me to get some more education and understand what and how they do it anyway, it has been a while since I got to spend any lab time.

Rick, When the power steering pump shaft seal leaks, does it leak into the engine usually or weep between the engine and the pump? Is that seal straight forward to change?

Does it take special tools to do the injector pump? Should I send it out at all or just work through it myself? I will try the two shops I work with well and see who or what they reccomend.

Thanks again for the input guys.

 

[AlanB]

Ok, got to tour the lab and learn a bit. It is Fuel, 9.4%, first test off the bat past the nasal gas chromatograph.

Viscosity was 25.98 @40 and 5.742@ 100 so down even thinner than 10wt which confirms again fuel.

Spoke with both shops I deal with, they both deal with the same guy, both said he is the ONLY guy in the area to deal with, makes that decision easy.

Called him, we talked a bit, to go through end to end doing seals etc. should be $180 to $220 he said, that is assuming nothing is bad in the pump besides seals.

Have to speak with the CFO (SWMBO) and see if that coin is on the table, might fly it and watch it a bit and see if it was a fluke or a repeating problem, but probably just need to go ahead and get it done.

Think I probably need to do the Power steering pump as well, when I spoke with my dealer they had the kits there at the counter, said to check the rotors, prior to opening the kit and they would take it back if unopened.

Ahhh, the joys of well used equipment.

 

[EddieWalker]

Alan,

It's been a few weeks, just wondering what you did and how it's working out?

Eddie

 

[AlanB]

I am holding. I am going to run and watch it (probably some this weekend) and make sure it was just not a fluke, or something to do with my working on the top. If it repeats I will get it rebuilt.

I think the guy will let me watch / do so I get the experience and the insight on how it works and how to do it, while I get it fixed. Kind of take the one day course in pump repair

I did buy the manual on CD off e-bay and it seems to work great. I am printing it so I have it hardcopy (big manual) and it has pictures and circles and diagrams to help so that gives me an extra bit of confidence.

Thanks for asking, will follow it up when I am sure which way it is going.

 

[Builder]

If I understand the thread correctly, you got diesel in your crankcase? Can you tell if this has happened before? If it has, you need to check for cylinder wall damage. One of my friends had a Ford diesel truck with a crankcase full of fuel and it washed his cylinder walls down forcing a rebuild.

I always check my oil with a light paper towel. You can see if you are leaking fuel into your oil becuase the fuel will spread rapidly on the towel.

 

[AlanB]

Builder, yes, I have oil in my crankcase, I think it is a case of I fixed one problem, and caused another, by sealing up the control shaft seals, I think the next weaker point was the center shaft seal which pushed the fuel into the crankcase.

I went out to run Lil on Thursday, and checked the oil, and it was again overfilled. Dang, so, I called the gentleman and this morning (Saturday) he returned my call, while he did not work on weekends, I was welcome to come by and drop it off. He did not want to work on it today, but had time to talk, and walk me through the shop showing me the internals of the different controls, and explaining their operations (in a very basic manner) Small shop, and very interesting man. Started wrenching on diesels in 57 I think he said, when they were able to start on their own, he said they just fascinated him. Line wrench in the big dealerships and small I think for years, then was service manager for one of the huge ag tractor places here from 70 to 00.

Not the average guy when it comes to these things, as I looked about the shop, there were fuel controls everywhere shipped in from all over by the markings.

Pretty dang neat shop, I wish I could get off next week and get the up-close and personal lesson, but probably not to be, I have to pay for my sins of being off Friday by doing 8/ 10's next week. I might ask if I could come down some other time and watch ask and learn, he strikes me as one of those older guys that enjoys passing on some of his experience to someone that is interested.

Anyway, the pump is in the shop, he said probably the 2 front seals but he would tear it all the way down and go through it and change all the appropriate parts. Should have it available next wed, probably pick it up Friday and with luck get it back on Saturday.

Pulling it was no fun, my morning did not start the best when I went through the 1500 page manual with something like 30 pages of explanations of how the fuel delivery system works, a million pictures arrows and diagrams, I get to the section on removing the fuel control and it says, "Remove the engine front cover, from the engine timing cover" Think there is picture 1 of that? Nope,,, Oh, and as usual nobody mentioned the special puller you need to fabricate, that use 5/16 fine bolts (not real common in my shop I found 4 total and you need 3) Then I just used a harmonic balancer puller and adapted to get it off.

There was one bolt on the backside of the control that I could neither see nor find by feel for a while, oh what a sweetheart that was

When I am in the middle of these things I certainly wonder why I do this crud. But it is nice when it is all back together and running again and I know I did it.

Oh, one other reminder of why I do my own work. Professional shop that I bought it from, had just put the alternator on it when I bought it. Looked today and realized they have the alternator belt running on the wrong pulleys. I guess it worked, but just that little quality difference.

 

[AlanB]

Aye,, Carumba. got the call from the shop, my pump is ready.

Said it definetely needed to be done, all the seals were hard, dry and breaking.

Then he said, it would be $380. OUCH

Guess when you play with the big boys. I guess there is my christmass present.