Ford 3000 w/ older front loader - pump driveshaft hub info please!

[CircleRat]

Howdy folks - my second post here. I posted this in the 'Hydraulics' section but then realized it may not be the appropriate place since most of the issues there seem to relate to newer tractors. If the moderators feel the first thread should be deleted or combined with this one, please feel free to correct my mistake.

I have a 1965 Ford 3000 3 cyl. gas with power steering & select-o-speed. I want to mount an older 19-105 (704) front loader on it from a Ford 800 series or pre 64 4000 4 cyl. gas tractor.

Here's my dilemma:

The bolt-on front pulley hub that drives the front mounted hydraulic loader pump is a 10-spline with 2-3/4" bolt hole spacing. It fits the 10-spine shaft, but won't fit the front pulley on the 3000 tractor which calls for a 13-spline hub with 4" bolt hole spacing. What's the solution?

I've seen Ford 3000s with these older loaders on them so I assume there's a way to do this. Is there an adapter hub available, or is this going to take some good ol' farm engineering?

Thanks for any help!

 

[Soundguy]

try pm'ing ultradog. he's a 3 cyl guy. though Rickb probbaly knows as well.

I'm more of a prior 4 cyl guy.

There MAY just be a different pulley hub available. if not. I doubt it's much of a problem for a decent machinist

 

[City Farmer]

I think some lathe work would be the cheapest way to go. Get 2 spline shafts, (1) 10 & the other 13. Cut to length, face, dowel both ends and weld together. I bet It would be cheaper than making a special shaft and you could get a spare for free. The hole spacing(if you have the room) could "probably" be fixed by an adapter plate?

 

[CircleRat]

Thanks for the replies fellas. Yep I've looked all over the net for an adapter hub but the only two hubs available are either the 10-spline with 2-3/4" hole spacing for '64 & earlier 4000/800 series 4 cyl. models, or the 13-spline 4" hole spacing for '65+ 3 cyl 2000, 3000, & 4000 models. The first hub I already have & it fits my loader pump shaft but not my tractor. The second hub would fit my tractor but not the loader hub shaft.

Good idea about fabricating a shaft by welding half a 13-spline and half a 10-spline together, hadn't thought of that one. I'd have to order a 13-spline shaft and find a good welder/machinist, I don't trust my cutting/welding skills enough to come up with a perfectly straight & strong shaft.

Another idea is to take my front pulley off the tractor and see if I can possibly fit the 10-spline hub to it by drilling 2-3/4" spaced holes in it. It would have to be centered perfectly or it would vibrate a lot.

I just want to be sure there isn't an adapter hub available before I start farm-engineering something. What I need is a 10-spline hub with 4" hole spacing. Either that or find a complete front hydraulic pump assembly for my tractor and just switch the loader hoses over to it. That would be pricey, unless I can find somebody who wants to trade... ??

 

[City Farmer]

Maybe you can use some of the info from this thread.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ford-vintage-tractors/306022-1967-ford-3000-730-loader.html

 

[CircleRat]

Maybe you can use some of the info from this thread.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ford-vintage-tractors/306022-1967-ford-3000-730-loader.html

Thanks - yes I found that thread earlier when searching the site. I believe the OP has a model 730 loader which is the correct loader for the Ford 3000. It has the front pump with a 13-spline shaft, so he has the 4" bolthole-spaced hub which fits his front pulley.

Unfortunately for me, I'm trying to mate a 19-105 (703) loader, which is made for the '64 & earlier 4000/800 series, to my '65 3000.

I looked at a lot of used 725/730 loaders but they were all above my budget, in the $2000 to $3000 range. When I bought this 19-105 loader (for $750) I was told it came off a '66 Ford 3000. The hub that bolts to the front pulley was missing, it must have stayed with the tractor which was already sold. So I found a 10-spline hub which fits the pump shaft and assumed it would work... I was wrong.

The loader itself fits perfectly, I think it was modified for a 3000 so I believe the seller. I just wish he would've thought to save that front hub before he sold his 3000. No such luck though.

If I can make this work it's definitely worth the $1200 or more savings off the price of a 725/730 loader. As I said I've seen these pre-'65 loaders on '65+ 3 cyl. Fords, I just have to find out how those ones were adapted to work. Hoping someone on here might know.

 

[Soundguy]

i still say the shaft cut n paste is a eyeblink job for a good machinist...

These old tractors can require that sort of fab in a few places.

for instance. there is a coupling tube fromthe trans to the pinion. during the model years going from 00 to 01 models. the spline count changed.

if you swap a rear in with a different spline count.. you have to take both coupling tubes, halve them and weld up.

common, practical soloution...

I've seen guys chop saw a shaft and use a pipe sleeve to square it up and make it true. they got lucky inthat case and found a pipe with a perfect fit so they had a guide to make sure the shaft was true sing the sleeve

 

[City Farmer]

I agree with SG. If you were my neighbor, I'd chuck it up in my little south bend lathe and do it for you. Start to finish we wouldn't have more than an hr. for both shafts

 

[CircleRat]

Ya'll are right, it sounds like a pretty straightforward job for a good machinist. I need to take a closer look at the pump, the shaft looks like it's attached to a rag gear on the pump end. It'll probably come off of there one way or the other.

Thing is, if I go this route I'll need to order a new 13-spline shaft and a new 13-spline hub with 4" bolthole spacing (around $100 for both), and once it's modified I can't go back.

I'd still like to see if I can mount the 10-spline hub to the front pulley somehow. If that doesn't work, I'll probably go with ya'll's solution. In the meantime, if anybody knows of an adapter hub or shaft, or any other options, please feel free to chime in!

 

[RickB]

Today I sold a 13 spline hub (OEM) for under $90. I had it on the shelf and cost less than the TISCO equivalent plus freight to get it in within my customer's timeframe. Both TISCO and NH list a 13 spline shaft 11.75" long. The NH shaft is about $88 and the TISCO is less, but no stock available. There may be a 10-1/2" 13 spline shaft out there for less. I'm not aware of a 10 spline hub that will fit the crank pulley on a 1965+ Ford, although they may be out there. I agree a custom shaft is in order for this project.