For 4110 Owners: PTO Pump - The Sequel !!!!!

[Dougster]

Recall the following post:

Just to put my 2 cents in this pump conversation... Last week I was discussing with my local dealer about what pump is in my 2004 4110 and if the newer pump would be a direct replacement. He had no idea. I too would like that 10-15 % more power for the 509 BH. It just seems to have a slight lack of power now that I really know how to use the BH.

To which I replied in part:

Hi Will - As mentioned earlier, I am not entirely sure that we don't already have the alleged "larger" pump. The fact is that I think they are playing games... perhaps unintentionally and even unknowingly... with the advertised flow hydraulic rating of the 4110. {BIG SNIP!} There is other evidence and I could go on, but you get the idea. Based on the actual pump I've got and different operating assumptions and roundoffs, you can make a very good case that my late-2004 already has a 9.5 GPM pump. Or not. I forgot to check the pumps on the new 2006 and 2007 4110's that I found down at different dealerships in MA and CT. My aging mind was on other tasks those days and I didn't have my camera with me anyway. Never did find a new 3510 to check... and that input is critical to my theory. This backhoe performance & PTO pump discussion has sparked my interest again... so next time I promise not to be so forgetful. When I learn more, I will publish my results!
Dougster

Very simply stated, I checked and photographed the hydraulic pumps on two brand new 4110 tractors... a 2006 and a 2007... the latter having an April 2007 production date. It doesn't get any newer than that!

The answer: The exact same hydraulic pump is mounted on my 2004 tractor, the brand new 2006 tractor and the brand new April 2007 tractor. The gear drive heads also appear to be identical at an assumed 1:1 drive ratio (due to rated engine RPM ~= rated pump RPM).

The conclusion: MahindraUSA finally fixed a specification error that has been around for years... probably since the "new sheet metal" 4110s were first introduced.

The new, larger, improved 4110 hydraulic pump: It doesn't exist. It's the pump you already own!!!

Dougster

 

[Willman]

Recall the following post:





The conclusion: MahindraUSA finally fixed a specification error that has been around for years... probably since the "new sheet metal" 4110s were first introduced.

The new, larger, improved 4110 hydraulic pump: It doesn't exist. It's the pump you already own!!!

Dougster

Now we can all rest better and stop dreaming of that magical bigger pump.
It does make sense that Mahindra had the specs. wrong.
Thanks Doug for your determination to solve this mystery.

 

[Dougster]

It does make sense that Mahindra had the specs. wrong.

Yeah... the idea that they would update the sheet metal... and then, for no reason at all, derate the 4110's hydraulic pump capacity down one tick to the 3510 level never made any sense to me at all.

Funny thing though... I believe there is still a mistake in the specs (actually, a brand new mistake). My guess is that the old loader lift speed stated for the ML112 for both the 3510 and 4110 (5.1 seconds) was set by test using a 4110 tractor. When someone finally found the hydraulic flow specification mistake on the 4110 and fixed it, they also decided to "fix" the spec on the ML112 and separated out the lift times for the 3510 and 4110 by assuming that the 4110 was now going to be 20.7% faster... while assuming that the 3510 would remain the same as previously stated! Hence the new specs: 5.1 seconds for the 3510 and 4.2 seconds for the 4110. In actual fact, I'm betting that the 4110 should still be 5.1 seconds... with the 3510 testing out ever so slightly slower. Just a hunch... but I'm willing to put money on it!

Dougster

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

Just to set the record straight, the 4110 hyd pump was updated to the 9.5 gpm on 10/30/03. Before that the 4110 had the 7.9 gpm pump the same as the 3510. I just decided to take the time to look it up. I hope this helps.

 

[Dougster]

Just to set the record straight, the 4110 hyd pump was updated to the 9.5 gpm on 10/30/03. Before that the 4110 had the 7.9 gpm pump the same as the 3510. I just decided to take the time to look it up. I hope this helps.

Hi Galen! Thanks so much for doing that follow-up research! Looks like we now know "the rest of the story"!

Of course the funny part is still the fact that it took them 3 full production years to update the published specs! Sounds like that change should have gone into the specs for the 2004, 2005 and 2006 production years... and here it is just appearing now for the first time for the 2007 production year 4110 tractors! You've got to wonder how many 4110 sales they lost in those three years due to a perception of inadequate flow to run a 509 backhoe or similar?

I still say they messed up the newly updated ML112 loader times... but that's another story!

So now this returns us back to the real underlying issue of "Is a (post-10/30/03) 4110 hydraulic system really adequate to get full spec power out of a 509 backhoe"??? Despite the fact that this information now suggests that I am within the lower end of Bradco's 9 to 12 GPM "optimum range" at rated RPMs... I can't help but think that I can do better. I suppose that time will tell as I get into more serious paying backhoe work. But it sure would be awfully nice to compare side-by-side a 509 without... and then with... a decent PTO pump.

As an aside to all this, I just went to see a rental place North of here that rents out a JD 110 backhoe... just in case a demo job coming up cannot be handled solely by the 509. Kind of embarrassing to have introduced myself, presented my business card... and then had to explain that I might need their 110 if my own machine can't handle all this nasty, tough concrete demo work... but better safe... and with backup lined up... than sorry.

Dougster

 

[Willman]

Just to set the record straight, the 4110 hyd pump was updated to the 9.5 gpm on 10/30/03. Before that the 4110 had the 7.9 gpm pump the same as the 3510. I just decided to take the time to look it up. I hope this helps.

I just found out that my "2004" 4110 was built in May of 2003.
It must of been a dealer leftover
Therfore I must have the old 7.9 gpm pump on my tractor, not the 9.5 gpm.
Dougster, for me there is still hope of upgrading pumps
Does anyone know the part numbers for both pumps and if they would swap out?

 

[Dougster]

I just found out that my "2004" 4110 was built in May of 2003. It must of been a dealer leftover Therfore I must have the old 7.9 gpm pump on my tractor, not the 9.5 gpm. Dougster, for me there is still hope of upgrading pumps Does anyone know the part numbers for both pumps and if they would swap out?

Bummer about the production date! Are you sure? Does your serial number have an "X" for 2004 or a "W" for 2003? May of 2003 would be a "W05" in the serial number. Check out the label on your hydraulic pump and post the info here or PM me. I'll bet anything it's a Joyang like mine... just gotta check the rating.

We'll get you where you need to be! You could even leap-frog us to a larger size!

Dougster

 

[Willman]

Bummer about the production date! Are you sure? Does your serial number have an "X" for 2004 or a "W" for 2003? May of 2003 would be a "W05" in the serial number. Check out the label on your hydraulic pump and post the info here or PM me. I'll bet anything it's a Joyang like mine... just gotta check the rating.

We'll get you where you need to be! You could even leap-frog us to a larger size!

Dougster

I got the build info on the Mahindra chat line tonight, they told me prod. date was May 2003.
My serial number is 4110X05310 (X = 2004?)
I was trying to find the posts about the build date code in the serial number but had no luck.
So I tryed the chat line (not impressed) they wanted to give me the retail date info untill I pressed them for the build date info.
Now Im confused (more than normal) LOL

 

[Dougster]

I got the build info on the Mahindra chat line tonight, they told me prod. date was May 2003.
My serial number is 4110X05310 (X = 2004?)
I was trying to find the posts about the build date code in the serial number but had no luck.
So I tryed the chat line (not impressed) they wanted to give me the retail date info untill I pressed them for the build date info.
Now Im confused (more than normal) LOL

X Machines are 2004 production... and the X05 means May 2004... but your sequence number looks low for that date. I'll check it out and report back!

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

X Machines are 2004 production... and the X05 means May 2004... but your sequence number looks low for that date. I'll check it out and report back!
Dougster

Will - Please recheck that full serial number... right off the nameplate... including any zeros. The X means 2004 but your sequence number suggests 2003.

Dougster