Floor Refinishing

Gomez · Jun 7, 2001

I'm preparing to refinish our hardwood (white oak) floors. I refinished one room last year using chemical stripper and light sanding by hand. The floor was in pretty good condidtion so I didn't want to take off any more material than I had to. I (and more importantly my wife) are very happy with the way the floor turned out. Of course, it took about twice as long as I estimated to prepare the floor.

We ae have a new white oak floor installed in the kitchen and the rest of the first floor will be refinished. In researching, I see the conventional drum sanding/buffer approach and a "Square Buff". The square buff is like a big palm sander and says it's slower than a drum sander, but more forgiving.

Does anyone have experience with this Square Buff?

Thanks

StoneHeartFarm · Jun 7, 2001

No experience other than seeing a lot of re finished hardwood floors. Belt sanders tend to gouge if you tilt the sander too much, leaving depressions in the sanded floor. I have seen a large pad type vibrating sander. (Stand up to operate, like the floor buffers in school gyms). I think that's what you are talking about with the square buff. The only other warning anyone has given me out re finishing the floors is not to take off too much. These boards are T&G, if you take off too much, you weaken the joint on the top side and the boards can warp, cracking the wood along the groove portion of the joint. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

MarkV · Jun 7, 2001

Gomez,

I think you will find that the square buff type sander will have a hard time cutting through the old finish on your floors. It may work alright on the new wood. Don't even consider a hand held belt sander. You would never get an even finish.

The normal process involves two types of sanders. An "edger" is used along the walls and is a disk type of sander. The edger is run around the outside of the room first with a 60 grit paper. The main body of the floor is done with a walk behind drum sander (there are some pro belt models). You do need to be careful and "feather" this sander up and down at the beginning and end of each pass. Your first cut is normally done with a 60 grit paper. Now the process starts all over but the edger uses 100 grit and the drum sander uses 80 grit then is followed again with a 100 grit paper. To even out the transition between the drum sander area and the edger area, you hand sand (with the grain of the wood) with 60 grit paper. After a good vacuum and damp mop job it is time to finish. I would recommend an oil base polyurethane applied with a lambs wool pad.(thin coats are the trick here) After 24 hours of drying time the raised grain, cause by the first coat of finish, can be sanded by hand (120 grit) or with a buffing machine that has a sanding screen on it. One or two more coats of finish will give you a nice floor.

One word of caution, the drum sanders that can be rented need to be looked at with some care. If the drum is out of round, it will leave a ripple (like small waves) on your floor. These sanders get rented for thing they were not intended for so can be in bad shape.

I have been in the hardwood floor business for the last 15 years and just gave you the ten cent tour of finishing a floor. Although you can do it, be aware that it is a big job, lots of dust and hard on the back. It is only fair to note that you can damage a floor past the point of fixing. This happens mostly when the drum sander is not feathered in at the start and finish of each pass. In our area (Atlanta) you would be able to find a contractor to sand your floor for $1.50 to $1.85 per square foot.

Hope this helped a little. Good luck.

MarkV

Richard · Jun 7, 2001

Gomez, listen to what MarkV says...

Did my own floor, after all, some "professoinal" wanted almost $1,000 just to prepare my floor! (the nerve /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif)

Well, today, the only thing keeping us happy, is the fact that, I did a "reasonable" job and that Marion originally wanted to DRAG CHAINS across the FINISHED floor /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif to give it a distressed look. So when she comments on any ripples, I immediately come back about her vanquished chain wishes...(at least I THINK the chains were for using on the FLOOR.../w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif )

Upshot, we never did the chain thing, the floor (in log house) has a bunch of ripples in it..(I would NEVER admit to them being divits /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif)

We are happy with the way it turned out, but in fact, it ended up being a back breaker (just lift that sander up two flights of stairs alone & you will know what I mean) but the finished product was "ok".

Today in hindsight, that is one job that is better left to the professional ESPECIALLY if you don't want the "distressed" look as we did. I would even suggest letting them finish it if you want the best look. Again, ours turned out fine, but for the amount of hours & work that went into it.......I kind of wish the "professional" had spent maybe 10 minutes educating me a tad better. Would have been money well spent in hindsight.

Richard

StoneHeartFarm · Jun 7, 2001

Gomez,

Mark's system sounds right. I've seen a lot of floors where people have tried to use a belt sander. They always wind up with "divots" and nearly always waves.

My only question is for Mark. Is that edger sander the big silver jobbie that looks like a walk behind floor buffer, or is that the big drum sander?

SHF

NYTrainer · Jun 7, 2001

If the finish is in decent shape and hasn't been worn through to the wood, by all means try the square pad sander. Once you get the floors finished the "best" thing to do is use the square pad sander "before" any wear patterns develop.

Try not to use any cleaners with wax (check the labels on cleaners you use) and when it comes time (usually about 6 years depending on traffic patterns) to renew the finish use the square pad sander to scuff the finish just enough (it uses huge 3M sanding pads), wipe it down with mineral spirits (they make an odorless type) and put down two thin coats of finish with a lambs wool applicator. You're set for another six years or so.
Sanding off the finish and wearing down floor material (there is only so much wood above the tongue and groove) is dirty, dusty and labor intensive. If you have to go that route don't skimp on the sandpaper. Also don't try to get away with using a rough grade followed up immediately by a fine grade. (of sandpaper) Take the time to progressively work up to a fine grade of sandpaper (sometimes 36, 60, 80, 100 then 120 grit). Then vacuum the floor well, tack rag it and use a sealer. You can scuff the sealer by hand and then tack it, and follow up with a minimum of two coats of a quality finish.

Remember (this is true with automobile painting too) a quality finish is 90% preparation and only 10% application. Flaws cannot be hidden by paint, only magnified.

Alot of people like the waterbourne clear products and they do really have a very hard finish (wear well) but they are crystal clear and don't impart any amber hues to the wood and you may need to stain the floor after sanding it if that is the look you want. If you do decide to try the waterbased materials it is usually best done only after sanding the surface fully and not used over a varnish/urethane type finish.

Hope your not sorry you posted this question. There really is no short way for me to write this info.
David

MarkV · Jun 8, 2001

SHF,

The walk behind sander is the drum sander for the field of the floor. The pro models are real beasts that have a 220v motor and are a couple hundered pounds. An edger is much smaller. It stands about 16" high and you bend over to work it.

Gomez, I think you can find some more information on finishing a floor through WWW.WOODFLOORSONLINE.COM or WWW.NOFMA.ORG

MarkV

Gomez · Jun 8, 2001

MarkV and others, thanks for the info and links. I had visited those sites earlier this week and they were a great help. I think I'm going to give the square buff a try tomorrow. If it doesn't cut it, I'll go to the drum sander.

I got a price of $1/ft² for someone the prep and weighed that against the cost of renting equipment and the chance that it may not turn out right. The Scottish blood prevailed.

StoneHeartFarm · Jun 8, 2001

MarkV

The edger is a disk sander. Is this rotary, virbratory or random orbit? Forgot to ask?

SHF

MarkV · Jun 8, 2001

SHF,

The edger is a rotary sander that uses a disk about 8". The edger has two small wheels on the back to help hold it steady and level. In my first post I said to start your first cut with a 60 grit paper, but we normally start with 30 grit. 30 can cut so fast that for someone new you run less risk of "Oh S---t" working with 60 to start. On real bad finishes with a large wax build up we sometimes use a 15 or 20 grit. Looks like someone glued gravel on the paper./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

MarkV