floor drain in barn

[OkeeDon]

I'm getting closer to pouring the slab for my barn, and thinking about the stuff I want to have under the slab. I'd like to have a floor drain to clean out the inside. While our land is totally flat, I had the ground under the barn built up 24" and compacted when our pond was dug, so there is some slope for the drain.

My first thought was to simply dig a hole a short distance from the barn and construct a drywell for the water to drain. Then, I started thinking about the projects I'd be doing -- most involve mechanical stuff and painting, with the high probability of spills of oil, grease, paint overspray, thinners, etc. This isn't stuff I want to wash down the drain and have go directly into the ground.

What kind of clever, cheap solutions do you know? I'm not looking for a multi-thousand dollar closed water recycling system, more of a Mother Earth News idea. I did a google search for floor drain problems, but most of the solutions involve eliminating the drain. This doesn't help; when I degrease an engine, the stuff has to go somewhere, either into a drain or out the door.

 

[tc35dforme]

Here in MA, any drain that originates inside a structure is considered sanitary plumbing and must go to a septic or sewer system. Now on top of that, if there is any chance of vehicle presence in the area of the drain ( garage / barn / etc ), you are also are required to install a sand / gas trap. This device is nothing more than a tank separator that lets the sand and grime settle to the bottom and the floaty oils skim to the top. The drain water exits from the mid-level of the tank where its supposed to be mostly water. Once in a while you're supposed to call in the haz-mat clean-up company and clean the tank.

The rule-of thumb around here is avoid the drain unless you really need it.

Now for the joke...the code also requires that you slope the floor to the overhead door opening if you don't have a drain. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif If you use a drain, you have all these requirements, if you don't...just wash it out the door !!!

At the very least, I'd invest in a floor drain with a sediment bucket so you can capture those screws and nuts that get washed into it. You'll have to pay a bit for it, but its worth it.

 

[RalphVa]

For my 2nd garage added in NJ, I just had the floor sloped to drain to the center drain, which was just a rocky hole in the ground. This worked for the occasional wash, water drain in that garage area but isn't good for heavy usage.

For my carriage house here in central Va, I had the same center drain installed but plumbed it to drain outside. At first, I just had it draining onto the ground outside. Recently, I dug a dry well of about 2x2 and filled it with rock and extended the drain into the hole.

Bio action in the soil will biodegrade most stuff that you drain into it. Just catch the bulk of the material, like used oil and antifreeze before it gets there. Little bits of this stuff will eventually biodegrade by microbes in the soil. If you really wanted to do it right, you could extend arms out from the dry well with perforated pipes, like your septic drain field. Even it won't handle much, if any, antifreeze unless it's the polypropylene glycol.

Oh, I piped a drain trap below my drain from the garage into the basement below it. (There are some HUGE girders and VERY thick floor holding the garage up.)

You better check the regs for Florida. There are gobs of undergrowth rivers all underneath Florida. Many of these are drinking water for folks. They likely have some regs to keep bad stuff out of this underground aquifer system.

Ralph

 

[JLD]

FYI, if you pipe it to a drywell, it would be regulated as a Class V injection well and would need a permit. It may not become an issue until you try to sell the house and someone finds out about it.

I like the idea of going to sanitary if you have it or through the filtering/skimming device prior to going to septic. The bottom line is I would do what code requires here.

There may be problems with this approach, but have you thought about just having a sump without an outlet. Water collected could be pumped out as needed. Contaminants could be containerized and taken to household hazardous waste collection sites (if you have these). Just a thought.

 

[rambler]

They are being eliminated because there are some serious EPA and insurance issues wth them in most areas of the country these days.

I'd be real surprised if you were allowed to do so. Not saying what you should do, but be aware of the possible ramifications.

--->Paul

 

[Currmudgeon]

The idea of draining out the door, (a non-drain drain) seems to be the simplest solution.

There are oil-filters available for catch basins, that you may be able to incorporate into your system, if you insist on a drain. These are basically an oil-sorbant bag that goes in the inlet to filter out the oil.

Here's a couple of references:

http://www.abe.msstate.edu/Tools/csd/NRCS-BMPs/pdf/water/source/stormcatchinsert.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/owm/mtb/sorbmat.pdf

 

[OkeeDon]

Looks like the consensus is that no floor drain is better. I can foresee a future property sale where the existence of a floor drain, even with oil/water separation or filter media, will cast suspicion and cause some sort of environmental test, which would be sure to find something, no matter how careful I am. On the other hand, I could let the equivalent of a crude carrier run out the door, polluting the land forever, and no one would even think about it.

Now, beyond the fact that this makes little sense, I have to admit that I'm not a high maintenance type of guy. According to the reports, filters might clog up every time I washed down the floor. A sump requires draining. A separator requires skimming. A trap in the basement would be nice, but the closest thing I've seen to a basement in South Florida is a swimming pool /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

So, even though I finally tried to turn over a new leaf and at least try something to help out the environment, "out the door" seems like the only way to go. At least it saves me a little $$$ and some time...

Thanks for all the responses.

 

[bebster]

Don,
You could install a a long, narrow drain at the outside edge of your garage door. Pitch the slab so that liquids run out the door, but go into the drain. That drain could then run into a collection/filter system like you suggested. When it comes time to sell the house, you can easily remove the drain and fill it up. You and the environment both win.

 

[OkeeDon]

Great idea! I did a google search and came up with several sources for channel drain materials. Essentially, like swimming pool decka-drain but with greater capacity and grates that can withstand vehicle traffic. I even thought of a couple of ways to make my own. I don't even think I'd have to dig it up -- since it's not a floor drain, and because swimming pool deck drains are very common here, no one would even think twice about it. Plus, it would give a cool, planned look to the aprons outside the doors. Most of the ones I saw have removable grates for cleaning clogs out of the channels. I wouln't have to worry about dropping that elusive, small part down the drain. Give me a few more minutes, and I can probably think of several other ways to rationalize this!