Flail Mower advice

[TO_Bud]

I've owned a used John Deere 25A flail mower for a couple of years now and I've used it sparingly around my 5 acres to keep the weeds down. The mower is 50 plus years old but is in really good condition, I did put on a new belt when I bought it, and I put a couple of pumps of grease in each fitting each time I use it. My tractor is a New Holland TC 40D, hydro that handles the flail without any problems.
I've been approached by a business land owner about mowing a large field for them. The field is supposedly composed of wild flowers and weeds and no sapplings or woody brush. It is however 40 acres in size. The 25A is only 78" wide and has what I'll call scoop type hammer knives like these GE709-P fits Rears & Vrisimo - $1.48 : Hard Hitter, Wear Parts With Muscle. I estimate it would take me 30 plus hours to cut it. I'm not interested in buying another cutter or renting something.
For any of you with more experience using a flail am I dreaming here or is this feasible? Will the belt last through it? Is my time estimate reasonable and what would be a good hourly rate $50 - $75?
Thanks, Bud

 

[flusher]

40 acres with a 6-1/2 ft wide flail--no way I'd do it. Wrong implement. Way too slow compared to a rotary mower (aka brush hog, bush hog, shredder, slasher). I'd double your time estimate if you intend to use your flail. Belts: I'd have a few sets of spares handy.

My setup is a 6-ft wide Hawkline brush hog and a Mahindra 5525 tractor (54 hp engine, 45 hp pto). It would take me 20-25 hours to mow 40 acres at normal ground speed. For a first time mowing on an unknown field, 30-40 hours-- going slow to avoid damaging the mower by hitting the (inevitable) junk you'll find in the weeds.

Good luck

 

[xtn]

I pull a 6' flail behind my NH Boomer 50 hydro, and mow field as you describe at an average rate of about 1.7 acres per hour. That does NOT include travel time, loading time, maintenance time, Dr.Pepper time, etc. It's just mowing time. That rate is for known, decently maintained field, so it doesn't include going slow for either unknown ground or excessive growth.

Hope that's of some help,
xtn

 

[TO_Bud]

Thanks for the reply guys. I just noticed the thread on "Large area Mowing" and read through it. I got some insight on others thoughts there. Flusher and xtn do you cut for hire and if so what are you charging per hour?

 

[leonz]

When one is mowing for hire its either done by the acre or by the hour.

The mowing of the fourty acres in question should be approached by charging by the hour.

The flailmower should have the rear roller lowered to its last position allowing you the highest mowing height when working the flailmower and tractor.

The mower will still create enough suction to cut the grass and brush quickly
when it is being mowed.

After the initial mowing is done you can lower the cutting height to bring it closer to the sod.


Figuring 40 hours for mowing at $15.00 U.S.D., per hour provides you with $600.00 U.S.D., this will provide you with the money for fuel and spares.


If you charged by the acre the cost to your client would be $2000.00 U.S.D., for the fourty acres and that may or would kill the opportunity right there for both of you.

Custom plowing is typically $50.00U.S.D., per acre and mowing takes less fuel and time.

When you have the area knocked down it will take you less time to mow or you can still mow at the same speed with the flailmower lower to its lowest mowing setting by repositioning the rear roller in the upper mounting holes.


Edit for added material:

for reference;

One acre is 43,500 square feet.


The dimensions of the property are what is important here as the forty acres may not be uniform in size-unless it was left as colonial military grant tract
and no reduction in actual dimensions has occured.



At three miles an hour you will be able to mow 264 feet per minute at 78 inches of cutting width.

264*12*78=274,104 square inches divided by 144 square inches= 1,716 feet per minute at 3 miles per hour of advance.

Using this figure for the fourty acre property for mowing alone would require
40*43560 or 1,742,400 square feet/1,716 square feet per minute=1,015 minutes or 17 hours of "actual" mowing time.

Its better for you to plan on mowing an acre every two hours just to be safe time wise and "Mowing Quality Wise" for the 40 acres in question as you may have to slow down to mow and simply charge by the hour plus the cost of fuel for the actual hours worked.


As a guide:


one mile per hour is equal to 88 feet per minute.

two miles per hour is equal to 176 feet per minute.

three miles per hour is equal to 264 feet per minute.

four miles per hour is equal to 356 feet per minute.



I like to use my flailmower taking it down to the 2 inch or so height
of turf or brush as it allows the natural grasses more of an opportunity
to become re-established


I want you to succeed and not to fail.

 

[TO_Bud]

Thanks for chiming in Leon. So if I can infer from your response you don't see a problem with the Flail mower doing the job. I did base my hourly estimate on ground speed (you didn't quite finish what you were saying) and came up with the 45 min/per acre. I wasn't real confident in that figure and that's why I wrote 30 plus hours. And it sounds like you are recommending a 2nd pass to make it right.

 

[leonz]

Thanks for chiming in Leon. So if I can infer from your response you don't see a problem with the Flail mower doing the job. I did base my hourly estimate on ground speed (you didn't quite finish what you were saying) and came up with the 45 min/per acre. I wasn't real confident in that figure and that's why I wrote 30 plus hours. And it sounds like you are recommending a 2nd pass to make it right.

I jumped off the track for a minute there and was distracted but the use of flailmower will give you a better quality of cut and it will also allow you to reshred the grass if it needs it due to the pressure gradient-suction created by the flailmower rotor and the knives and you wil have very little in clippings to see.


If you mow in a spiral pattern the mowing will go quicker as the need for braking stopping and turning will be avoided untill you reach the perimeter of the property. (this is where I make a few passes along the edge and worry less about the uncut parts/corners until I am done.


The tire tracks will be gone in a day or two also and the turf will look very nice after the initial mowings.


If you have had the chance to read about the flail mowers here on the forum you have seen that we have a lot and I mean a lot of happy flailmower owners.

My dad had a Ford Jubilee that he reclaimed 12 acres of pasture with that had 10 foot golden rod and underbrush and used a JD finish flail with three rows of grass slicer knives for years.

 

[TO_Bud]

OK Leon thanks for the info and the tip on the circular cut technique.

 

[greg_g]

I'm a flail advocate, but I think that's too much acreage for a 78 incher. And 35 PTO hp might come up a little short if there's any matted patches. My own 74" flail is turned 35 PTO hp as well, and struggles through a few thick patches on my own acreage. Besides, you've got brush knives on there.

I'd suggest to the property owner that he get someone to rough cut with a batwing first. They can take a helluva lot more abuse from unknown stuff that's almost always found on unfamiliar ground. Then walk the acreage yourself, and see if you're still willing to try it on a more regular basis.

//greg//

 

[TO_Bud]

Greg can you explain why the brush cut knives are a detriment, I've cut with it 6 or 7 times on my 5 acres and the cut seemed pretty good, better than the brush hog type mower I used to have. The other caveat here is they only cut once a year, late summer early fall. I was going to take my atv there this spring and drive it to see what the terrain is all about. They claim it has been planted in wild flowers and that it doesn't get that tall. In my mind wild flowers is just another name for weeds. Anyway I would reserve the option of cutting it after I observed the property come cut time. If necessary I can buy the slicer style knives if the brush type are improper.

 

[dusty3030]

$20 to $30 per acre. This is based on $3.25 gallon on fuel costs and is information from Michigan State University extension service.
Narrow cutter / going slow, you loose. Wider cutter / going fast, you win.

Personally I would never pay anyone by the hour on a cutting job.

 

[xtn]

Flusher and xtn do you cut for hire and if so what are you charging per hour?

No I don't. My figures are based only on mowing my field.

 

[xtn]

264*12*78=274,104 square inches divided by 144 square inches= 1,716 feet per minute at 3 miles per hour of advance.

Using this figure for the fourty acre property for mowing alone would require
40*43560 or 1,742,400 square feet/1,716 square feet per minute=1,015 minutes or 17 hours of "actual" mowing time.

Its better for you to plan on mowing an acre every two hours just to be safe...

Sorry if I'm confused. 40 acres in 17 hours is 2.35 acres/hour. Probably in line with my average of 1.7 acres/hour when you add in turning around, backing up, row overlap, etc.

But you recommend planning on only 0.5 acres/hour to be safe?

That's one heck of a safety factor!

 

[greg_g]

Greg can you explain why the brush cut knives are a detriment

Well, there are several knive/hammer types. Each is designed for specific applications. Hammers and brush knives don't ordinarily hit the ground (or at least aren't intended to), so they're not designed with sharpening in mind. Assuming normal use, combo knives and finishing knives however, can be resharpened several times over their lifespan. that said - if you take that mower into unknown territory - it's hard tellin' what you're gonna hit. If what you hit damages (rather than simply dulls) a knife, it's replacement time. Mine (I use T-type combo knives) - I can easily resharpen. Same with drive belts. Banded belts for my flail are over $20 bucks a pop now. Don't take long in unknown ground to smoke a belt to the point of replacement.

Your machine, your money. My perspective simply comes from what I'd do if it was MY machine and MY money lookin' at that 40 acres.

//greg//

 

[leonz]

I was examining the use of a spiral mowing pattern and sharp grass slicers
too where there is no braking, stopping or readjusting for realignment etc.


The Biggest worry is sucking up barbed wire or a fence post in that you have to manually disconnect the shaft and move the rotor by hand to unwind the crap out from under the hood-always better to drop the mower on its nose with the shaft off if you have wood or concrete blocks to lower it on to get room to work or use good jack stands on wood pads made from Plywood and 2bys for added stability.


The nice thing about having a fender mounted radio to while away the time when mowing reduces the boredom. Next thing on my list to buy is a Motorola or Radio Shack fender radio for the lawn tractor. I will probably mount it on the suitcase weight frame behind the seat.


If you can locate the actual center of the property it aids in mowing as you
simply power up and hit one of the steering brakes to make the crop circle to start. You spend a lot of time getting the edges if you are not directly centered BUT if you have a good radio and a dry day.......................


Hope this helps.

 

[flusher]

Thanks for the reply guys. I just noticed the thread on "Large area Mowing" and read through it. I got some insight on others thoughts there. Flusher and xtn do you cut for hire and if so what are you charging per hour?

Nope--just do my own 6 acres. A few years ago I mowed my neighbors 7 acres with my 6-ft brush hog when he was laid up after surgery. My mower found the concrete blocks and 4x4 lumber he lost previously in the weeds:confused2:.

BTW: my flail is a 68" wide model from Value Leader. OK for mowing stubble in my hayfield. I haven't challenged it by mowing in the woods yet.

 

[tbutman]

I have a job just like that, I do every summer with my 25A. I used to use my 1050 30hp jd and it took me 1.5 days to do it over 5 fields (totalled about 40 acres) I bought a 1070 this spring 40hp and I was done in 8 hrs tractor time. saved the guy $75 over last year and still made $500. If it's your first time mowing go slow and learn the field. I used to lose teeth pretty regular.