Feedback on Weld

[Furu]

I continue to try to improve my weld quality and learn all the time.
I thought that I would ask for some feedback even though I am well aware that pictures do not always give a good idea and with a lousy iphone 3Gs as the only digital camera the quality is a bit lacking. I actually had a couple other pictures but the lighting and focus made the pictures unusable and I currently can't take new ones to replace. (not at home)

The project is made using C5-9.0# channel with 2x2x0.25 sq tubing cross-members with 1/4 inch end plates. The pictures are of the end plates attached to the ends of the channel steel. The end plates are cosmetic and serve no real purpose other than fairing the ends of the channel.

I was using 1/8" ESAB Acclaim 7018 running at 130 amps. I have to watch myself as I am inconsistent in travel speed and have been known to not weld as consistently as I would like to.

In the first picture I feel that I was really varying the speed of travel even worse than normal for me. The first two red lines depict what is about a 1 mm lip from not enough fill on the plate due to travel speed. Kind of herky jerky like. The restart kind of got buggered up and I did not fill the crater at the end as well as I should have by standing up the rod and waiting. I did stand up the rod but did not wait long enough (I think). I had mis-cut the end piece a little and rather than cut a new one I made a first pass with 3/32" at 68 amps to fill the "um how to you say resulting gap" :laughing: :ashamed: from my mis-cut. It was basically an open root edge for the end due to my mis-cut. That should not have had any effect on the weld that you see however.






The second picture my travel speed was over-all better, I think. Where the red line is I again had about a 1 mm lip where I should have a bit more fill and I think if I had been just a bit slower it would have been filled properly. Again the crater at the end point. I have been trying to get better at welding around the corners but did not on these two welds as I had already done the sides and tried to wrap around from those welds but this weld mostly washed it out and I cratered again.



Most of the time I just email these to SA but thought I would throw them out for constructive comments since we have had such a brouhaha lately regarding constructive comments.

Incidentally I did these with my Everlast 300. Thanks go to Amazon for their pricing and SA and Mark for bring it to everyone's attention.

 

[Arc weld]

Sometimes on outside corner welds like that where you want to have a nice rounded edge, it makes it easier if you use a slight weave. Strength wise, burning the corner off doesn't give any more strength. In school when we did test plates, they wanted you to leave the edge. Your 1mm would have been perfect. You can tell speed was right in the second picture by the ripples in the bead. Rounded ripples is usually what you want and pointed ripples indicate too fast of travel speed. There are some rods/occasions where you can have/want pointed ripples. Thin material going fast, higher than normal amps, downhand, 7024, etc. Another way of doing an outside corner weld like that is to use 2 faster passes. This is usually on thicker steel though. Weld one bead to catch the bottom edge and then use the second pass on top to catch to the top edge. Done right will leave a nice round corner similar to a single pass weld. With a little experience and a non critical weld like a cap, position the piece slightly downhill and use a weave to keep the slag from running into the puddle. You can go a little faster and it's easy to catch both edges but the weld will be more flat than convex. Just for a cap on tubing doesn't require maximum strength.

You showed a lot of improvement from your first weld to the second one. :thumbsupo a few more and you should have it down pat. Nothing wrong with filling a gap. Just grind it so it has the same profile. Then you can do a consistent weld all the way across and nobody will know you made a little mistake. Being able to fix your mistakes is the sign of a good craftsman. That is fixing them the right way, so they are structurally sound and not noticeable. Even the best welders will occasionally have a bad x-ray and have to make repairs. A 1/8" 7018 should burn about 6".

 

[Shield Arc]

Where did you have the arc force set? With my PA-300 I run the arc force at 1 when running 7018. I also found that Atom Arc wets out just a touch more than the Acclaim.

 

[Underdog57]

Furu, I'd be happy if my welds looked that good! :thumbsup:

 

[Big Barn]

Looking good,Furu!

Terry

 

[Furu]

Sometimes on outside corner welds like that where you want to have a nice rounded edge, it makes it easier if you use a slight weave. Strength wise, burning the corner off doesn't give any more strength. In school when we did test plates, they wanted you to leave the edge. Your 1mm would have been perfect. You can tell speed was right in the second picture by the ripples in the bead. Rounded ripples is usually what you want and pointed ripples indicate too fast of travel speed. There are some rods/occasions where you can have/want pointed ripples. Thin material going fast, higher than normal amps, downhand, 7024, etc. Another way of doing an outside corner weld like that is to use 2 faster passes. This is usually on thicker steel though. Weld one bead to catch the bottom edge and then use the second pass on top to catch to the top edge. Done right will leave a nice round corner similar to a single pass weld. With a little experience and a non critical weld like a cap, position the piece slightly downhill and use a weave to keep the slag from running into the puddle. You can go a little faster and it's easy to catch both edges but the weld will be more flat than convex. Just for a cap on tubing doesn't require maximum strength.

You showed a lot of improvement from your first weld to the second one. :thumbsupo a few more and you should have it down pat. Nothing wrong with filling a gap. Just grind it so it has the same profile. Then you can do a consistent weld all the way across and nobody will know you made a little mistake. Being able to fix your mistakes is the sign of a good craftsman. That is fixing them the right way, so they are structurally sound and not noticeable. Even the best welders will occasionally have a bad x-ray and have to make repairs. A 1/8" 7018 should burn about 6".

Thanks

I thought it was not ideal to have that 1 mm lip and have been trying to avoid. Thanks for clarification.

If I understand your statement "position the piece slightly downhill and use a weave to keep the slag from running into the puddle." I think that means position the piece with a slight slope and then weld uphill so that the slag flows downhill? Is that what you mean? I will try that.

Where did you have the arc force set? With my PA-300 I run the arc force at 1 when running 7018. I also found that Atom Arc wets out just a touch more than the Acclaim.

In the first picture I had the AF 1 because I forgot to change it back to AF 5 since I had it at AF 1 for my 3/32" 68 amp fix to my mis-cut piece. When I bumped the amps back for the 1/8" I failed to change the AF. In the second the AF was 5.
While I am still trying to fully understand the wet out terminology, it seems to me that I see it a bit more at the higher AF settings. Maybe I do not fully grasp the term and the application and thus have no idea. If I understand the wet out correctly (as previously stated) I think the Excalibur wets out more than the Acclaim as well. Will have to try the Atom Arc in the future.

What I do know is that the effects of AF on the Longevity machine was so much better after the unit was replaced but what I see with the PA300 is a significantly larger range (IMO).

 

[dragoneggs]

I don't have any constructive criticism being a lowly MIG newbie and not picked up a stick in 30+ years, but nicely done and well written post.

 

[Shield Arc]

While I am still trying to fully understand the wet out terminology

First picture is what I consider not very good wet out. Second picture is what I'd call good wet out.

 

[Furu]

Between your picture which I think reinforces my understanding I would say that when you have a good wet out, the weld bead has a smooth flow into the parent metal so that there is no real defined boundary between the bead and the metal being welded. Basically a transition that is smooth and seamless versus an abrupt boundary. If there is a clear and abrupt boundary then there is poor wet out.

Is that a basically correct description?

 

[Shield Arc]

Is that a basically correct description?

BINGO! We have a winner! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: