Electrical question... UF inside walls?

[Richard]

I've got two 250' unopened rolls of normal "in wall" 12/2 wg. I'm pulling wires across my basement so my brother in law (electrician) can hook them up but, skip the pulling part.

He's out of town right now AND isn't answering his phone

In addition to the above, I have probably another 200' of 12/2 w/g UF wire that is left over from putting some lights outside. The wire has been opened and thrown around a bit but never really abused or kinked.

I KNOW that UF can be a pain in the posterior to work with so let's not even worry about telling me that.

My question is, would'nt I be just as legal if I ran the 12/2 wg UF wire inside my walls instead of the normal 12/2 wg?

If I can do that, I not only get to use up my dead in the water UF wire but might be able to return one or both of my 250' (still wrapped) bundles of 12/2 wg wire and get some cashola back.

Since I can't find my brother in law, I've already pulled two runs across the room, cut the outer sheath off the box/switch ends so the outer sheath goes INTO the box, protruding maybe 2/3 inches inside the box. Then it's black wire, white and copper (black/white are still covered)

I don't really want to put 3 more runs across the room unless I know it's a one way street and I'm done. I don't really want to rip it all out and have to put the 'normal' 12/2 wg in its place.

Logic tells me it MUST be ok to use from a code perspective, just a pain in the hiney to use so only stupid people ask about doing it

 

[CurlyDave]

Ask your BIL first. What makes commons sense in electrical code is not always right.

I just built my own temporary overhead power pole for rebuilding my burned-out house and discovered that I could not use weatherproof wire in the conduit from the weatherhead to the meter and breaker box. It made sense to me to run the weatherproof wire since 18" of it extends out of the weatherhead and is exposed, but the powers that be have prevented this.

I suspect the answer lies in the temperature rating of the wire. The UF is intended for burial, and must be protected from water intrusion in the ground. But, the thermal environment is different than wire behind walls and especially if there is insulation in those walls. The UF will run hotter.

 

[czechsonofagun]

I am afraid, Dave is right. We always think in terms of physical damage to the cable but the heat or what not is another story. With 99.99% chance it will work just fine, but if anything happens - like a fire - the wiring was not up to the code and you are really f@$#illed up.

 

[Richard]

HA! Who would have ever thought about the heat aspect of it!!

What you guys say (unfortunately) makes a great deal of sense. Crapola... I just got done perfecting this first run.

Where are brother in laws when you need em?!!!

I'll freeze in place until this is answered. I'm already not liking my gut feeling.

 

[kenstrac]

N insulation, rated 90 degrees Celsius, 600 volt. Gray PVC jacket. For applications of direct burial, dwellings not exceeding 3 floors above grade, underground feeder to outdoor lighting or apparatus, exposed or concealed wiring in damp, moist, wet, dry, and corrosive locations, general branch circuit wiring and new wiring or replacement wiring. Flame retardant, moisture, fungus, and corrosion resistant. Sunlight resistant jacket. JC-30B Federal specification, ASTM B-3, ASTM B-8 and NY state DOS 16120-880923-2002. U.L. Listed. /2 = 2 insulated wires with bare ground. /3 = 3 insulated wires with bare ground. This Building Wire is one of many top quality items in our Building Wire / Uf department.

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This should ansewer your question it's OK

 

[eepete]

Our county follows the NEC. I got dinged when I used UF to run into a light fixture what was outside under a porch. The fixture was one of the ceiling mounted square flush lights, and was rated for outdoor damp location use. The 90 degree rating was the problem. I just used "normal" romex for the entire house from then on out. Only used the UF for outside lighting runs.

So I can't say what all you _can_ use it for, but that experience is at least one thing you _can't_ use it for. You can not run it into a light fixture. I don't know if that applies to a fixture mounted on a box such as a sconce. It _does_ apply to can lights.

Pete

 

[kenstrac]

Our county follows the NEC. I got dinged when I used UF to run into a light fixture what was outside under a porch. The fixture was one of the ceiling mounted square flush lights, and was rated for outdoor damp location use. The 90 degree rating was the problem. I just used "normal" romex for the entire house from then on out. Only used the UF for outside lighting runs.

So I can't say what all you _can_ use it for, but that experience is at least one thing you _can't_ use it for. You can not run it into a light fixture. I don't know if that applies to a fixture mounted on a box such as a sconce. It _does_ apply to can lights.

Pete

If you read my post it says 90 degree C . and you always needed 90C wire to go in a light that was recessed thats why some fixtures had another box on the side so the older wire that was 60c could be used.
If you had used 90C uf wire it would have been APPROVED!

 

[Richard]

As an update... since I have several runs to string around, I've simply started using the open roll of inside 12/2, putting a halt on doing anything with the UF. If I'm not allowed to use it (which is looking like I probably won't be) then I'm still getting work done. If I AM allowed to use it I'll still have other runs to make and can use it there.

Anyone want a screaming deal on some recently untangled 12/2 g UF?


For those of you who are electrically blessed unlike myself... AND who happen to also have a home theater or otherwise nice audio setup...

What are your thoughts on installing what I think is called an isolation transformer near my box, running with 12/3 wire such that each leg is hot with 60 volts instead of one leg using 120. My understanding is this keeps ground loops from happening (really annoying hum in your system for those who have never heard of ground loops) and as I understand it... the isolation transformer would also help "remove" this system from the rest of the (potential of) other household noises.

This (downstairs audio room / mancave) is what I'm working on right now. The rooms electric service is already installed. I'm running a second dedicated circuit around the room so I can keep lights/vacume cleaner and anything else off these outlets. I just had a friend send me an email telling me I should be running 12/3 instead of 12/2 so I could do an isolation transformer (better said, to have one installed for me)

I'll admit I do not understand some of this stuff AND, sheesh.... this is just a simple guy with a simple home system. I'm not Madison Square Gardens!! (although my speakers are VERY sensative and at about 108 db/watt will showcase just about any noise that is present)

 

[tommu56]

For those of you who are electrically blessed unlike myself... AND who happen to also have a home theater or otherwise nice audio setup...

What are your thoughts on installing what I think is called an isolation transformer near my box, running with 12/3 wire such that each leg is hot with 60 volts instead of one leg using 120.

Isolation transformers don't put 60v on each leg that is a misconception it is still 120v to common.
They just isolate the line and load and has inductance to eliminate noise from the line side to load side.

Now for the speakers what type of wire do you has more of an effect on noise spend money on wire here not on the transformer.

I usually use shielded 2 conductor 16 gauge wire ground the shield only at the amp isolate shield at the speaker end and the 2 conductors to the terminals on amp and speakers.


Do put a good belkin or trip light surge suppressor on the equipment.


tom

 

[Richard]

Now for the speakers what type of wire do you has more of an effect on noise spend money on wire here not on the transformer.

I usually use shielded 2 conductor 16 gauge wire ground the shield only at the amp isolate shield at the speaker end and the 2 conductors to the terminals on amp and speakers.


Do put a good belkin or trip light surge suppressor on the equipment.

Thanks Tom.

Right now, I don't really know how my end use will be setup. I'm going to have a dual use system, 2 channel and 5.1 HT. Because of the wife issues, I don't know if I'll have my amps in the front of the room or the rear of the room (she wants rear I want one each, near each front speaker). consequently, I have 2 XLR lines running from "central" to the front three speaker locations (2 per location) I also have some RCA lines going to the same connection in case I don't have my XLR amps up there (Crown K2's). I will also have speaker wire. I've always been of the persuasion that decent speaker wire is decent speaker wire. I've got 2 lines of Carol Cable 12g outdoor low voltage light, wire.

Oh... I biamp each of my front 3 speakers so that's why I've got doubles going to each location.