doing the best with a low budget driveway

[tastyratz]

So I noticed quite a few posts here with creative driveway suggestions and ideas by members and I wanted to see what people thought.

I am a homeowner in New England who purchased a house with a 20x100 sq ft poor drainage driveway downsloped from the street. When we got there it was mostly sand and river rock so we had someone come in and put down/grade a few inches of "manpack" (crush and run - stone dust and gravel mix)

He also just graded it with a dozer and did nothing to compact it. When I got home that day I drove my car back and forth over the driveway for 30 min to compact but that's not stood the test of time as there are already ruts and low spots where we park.

Over the winter I really had an issue with no being able to scrape the drive with the snowblower and creating a hazardous situation for safety by having a persistent season long 2 inch block of ice for a driveway. I need something I can drag without ripping up or launching rocks on the lawn.

Tearing it all up to put a solid base and pave is way out of our price league and probably north of 10-13k+ in our area. I just signed up for 30 years of being broke. For now I need to creatively solve issues and do the best I can with minimal cost.

Several issues here:
Driveway has poor drainage and gets lots of street runoff.
Compacted where cars typically parked making ruts
Snow and ice removal issues in winter

1. I am looking at poly pavement. Several members said they were going to use it/have used it/etc but never posted about it again. What is the expected longevity of this? Would my choice of aggregate be ideal? I need a hard scrape-able surface. Would i be better to put down a top layer of pure stone dust to bind? Better suggestions?

2. I would love a way to get a darker color to help melt snow in the winter. Ideas for cheap surface additives that will keep color? Maybe some sort of ash?

3. To improve drainage I am thinking of digging drain channel along the sides of the drive, and the front/back to redirect water runoff. Thoughts on plastic drain pipe from home depot cut in half and filled with course aggregate? Best choice of fill? Thinking more rounded stone would leave more voids for water to travel. One of the channels would be driven over every day by the cars and the other every time we go into the garage.

4. would true coal tar sealcoat act as a binder when not on asphalt if I coated a gravel driveway? good or bad idea?

5. Would going over the whole thing with a street roller be worth it? Would that compact me enough to make a difference and really help or should I not bother at this point? I can rent a vibrating plate compacter from home depot but that's obviously not got the same weight. how do they compare?

I am Open to other cheap suggestions and creative ideas. I thought of shingle tabs or reclaimed asphalt... but I am a few years too late to that market - with oil prices skyrocketing reclaimed gets gobbled up fast at outrageous prices.

 

[forgeblast]

Can you post some pics, so we can see the issues. Sometimes a second/third etc set of eyes is helpful.

 

[JCB]

tasty,

You're not gonna like this answer, go with asphalt. Being on a downslope and wanting to scrape away ice, asphalt pavement is just about the cheapest option that meets your needs.

You should be able to get a paving quote for around $2 a square foot, and it should last 10, 20 or 30 years. Once you start messing with additives and seal coats on existing you're looking around $0.50 a square foot for a surface that really won't handle any sort of down pressure and won't really have any durability.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by poly pavement. I assume you mean a polymer modified asphalt pavement. Nothing special there, you can blend additives with asphalt to tweak some of the pavement properties. They usually help, but they also start adding nickels and dimes to the square foot prices.

You're drain tile cut in half will get filled with dirt, silt and other fines and soon be no different than the adjacent driveway.

Hope someone else has a better idea for you.

Joe

 

[Egon]

A picture would be nice.

As for solving the problems at low cost it may be difficult.

Don't waste money on any spray ons or that sort of thing as it probably will not work.

The first step is to establish a proper drainage.

Then the base has to be properly prepared. This means excavated with organic material removed, layed back down in shallow lifts and properly packed. Car tires are not packers nor are truck tires. The final surface has to have drainage however that is achieved.

Next comes crushed granular material of some sort. This also has to be laid out and properly packed. This could be considered finished if the surface grade all drains.

Then comes the final coat be it concrete. asphalt or paving blocks.

So it's not cheap to do it properly. Any other method may work short term but will fail and waste your dollars.

One of your best winter options might be lots of salt and sand to eliminate the skating rink.:thumbsup:

 

[tastyratz]

Also had another thought I was reading online of people who made "soil cement" just mixing in portland cement. Thoughts of adding in 6% or so in the mix to help stabilize this a bit? if I did it would add about $100 in materials + cost of stone dust. Would I be better off not bothering with the polypavement (probably 5-600 for the polypavement) and just mixing in double the portland?

( for those unaware polypavement is a soil solidifier http://www.polypavement.com/more_info.php )

Wear Surface: PolyPavement is a liquid soil solidifier. It is not merely a soil stabilizer. PolyPavement converts ordinary dirt into a rock-solid wear surface that rivals asphalt and concrete. Though a PolyPavement wear surface is not as strong as concrete, it is several times stronger than asphalt. In fact, a properly installed PolyPavement natural soil wear surface is tough enough to actually “burn rubber” when tires spin during fast starts by aggressively driven vehicles. This capability puts PolyPavement in a class of its own. Other water-based polymer soil stabilizers are primarily used for dust control. They cannot be used to make a permanent roadway wear surface.And the many soil stabilization polymers, enzymes and other materials that are used successfully in road construction, are only used to strengthen or stabilize the road base and/or the road sub-grade but they are not capable of producing a rock-solid roadway wear surface.

Brainstorming... if this might not work well what about topcoating portland and using a roller to pack it down/force it in with the gravel just to stiffen it up?

I don't have a lot of really good usable pictures up but I have 2 online. These are both shots before we refreshed the driveway which had growth at the edges.

This one is from the side of the garage looking at the street. Might be hard to tell the steepness of the driveway - but its steep.

And another I captured from a birds eye view on bing making notes:

Red: mentioned drainage notes/changes, dotted is driven over.
blue: what's there.
Street run off to driveway drainage channel would be directed on the other side of a built up mound with bushes avoiding the driveway altogether and ending up in the woods on the other side of the property.
Other drainage would run to a stream in the woods next to the house (diverting around a shed there now I didn't mark)

Garage is raised maybe 3 inches from driveway and has a poured concrete apron. Drain channel also ensures if I topcoat water has a place to go instead of all in the garage.

As much as I know asphalt is the best option for what I need, It is just a luxury not in the cards for a long time. What I am hoping for is maybe something in the range of 50% result for 10% cost. A way to make a solid surface that might only last 5 years but cost $1000 every 5 to refresh till I can afford otherwise - a diy middle ground option. **** $1000 every 5 is cheaper than 12,000 every 15 even in the long run.

Plus when I do pave I want to do it RIGHT. I am in a VERY volatile area and everyone's driveway near me was done at different times and is falling completely apart with frost heaves. The cost to REALLY put down a good strong base is a lot more than a 2" binder coat...

I salt and sand but the sand compromises the driveway with additional material (who wants a sand driveway?), and with how wide it is it just melts snow/ice which permeates into the gravel a few feet over sitting and probably eventually making for heaves. It doesn't like to melt and run off. I can fit 4 cars side by side. I know pitch isn't good enough but that's a dillema without getting runoff in the garage.

This would be expected to fail eventually, I have no delusion of a permanent solution. Nothing is up here.

 

[beenthere]

............................
Several issues here:
Driveway has poor drainage and gets lots of street runoff.
Get the street run-off re-directed right away. I'd put a serious crown down the center so any water runs to the side right away....not down towards your garage

1. I am looking at poly pavement. .........Would i be better to put down a top layer of pure stone dust to bind?
Yes, in my opinion, the stone dust (if it will pack) to form the crown would be a good way to go. If your stone dust is packable like our limestone fines, which packs very well.

2. I would love a way to get a darker color to help melt snow in the winter. Ideas for cheap surface additives that will keep color?
Darker color can come from re-cycled asphalt, which around here costs about the same as crushed limestone gravel. And it will pack and work well to shed water if there is crown.

3. To improve drainage
A french drain in front of the garage door would probably keep the water out of the garage, if the crown in the drive allows any water to get that far.

4. I wouldn't try to seal-coat as that is just tossing away money, IMO.

5. Would going over the whole thing with a street roller be worth it?
A roller will not do much for you. Car tire compaction worked well for me (for 30+ years) if done immediately after the gravel was mixed, graded, and spread. Cheapest and I think the best alternative.

.......

So, bottom line, I would suggest getting the drainage built in to the drive with crown so the water runs to the side and away....not down the drive from the road. That is as cheap as some of the thoughts you were coming up with.

 

[MarkV]

In your first post you mentioned having a "few" inches of gravel installed. Around here less than 6" of crusher run doesn't do much. Adding some gravel may be the cheapest way to raise the grade and when you can pave it will be an excellent base. I do agree that you have to get the water flowing a different way for anything but paving to work well.

MarkV

 

[brin]

Also had another thought I was reading online of people who made "soil cement" just mixing in portland cement. Thoughts of adding in 6% or so in the mix to help stabilize this a bit? if I did it would add about $100 in materials + cost of stone dust. Would I be better off not bothering with the polypavement (probably 5-600 for the polypavement) and just mixing in double the portland?

( for those unaware polypavement is a soil solidifier PolyPavement: Natural Soil Pavement - Liquid Soil Solidifier )


Brainstorming... if this might not work well what about topcoating portland and using a roller to pack it down/force it in with the gravel just to stiffen it up?

I don't have a lot of really good usable pictures up but I have 2 online. These are both shots before we refreshed the driveway which had growth at the edges.

This one is from the side of the garage looking at the street. Might be hard to tell the steepness of the driveway - but its steep.

And another I captured from a birds eye view on bing making notes:

Red: mentioned drainage notes/changes, dotted is driven over.
blue: what's there.
Street run off to driveway drainage channel would be directed on the other side of a built up mound with bushes avoiding the driveway altogether and ending up in the woods on the other side of the property.
Other drainage would run to a stream in the woods next to the house (diverting around a shed there now I didn't mark)

Garage is raised maybe 3 inches from driveway and has a poured concrete apron. Drain channel also ensures if I topcoat water has a place to go instead of all in the garage.

As much as I know asphalt is the best option for what I need, It is just a luxury not in the cards for a long time. What I am hoping for is maybe something in the range of 50% result for 10% cost. A way to make a solid surface that might only last 5 years but cost $1000 every 5 to refresh till I can afford otherwise - a diy middle ground option. **** $1000 every 5 is cheaper than 12,000 every 15 even in the long run.

Plus when I do pave I want to do it RIGHT. I am in a VERY volatile area and everyone's driveway near me was done at different times and is falling completely apart with frost heaves. The cost to REALLY put down a good strong base is a lot more than a 2" binder coat...

I salt and sand but the sand compromises the driveway with additional material (who wants a sand driveway?), and with how wide it is it just melts snow/ice which permeates into the gravel a few feet over sitting and probably eventually making for heaves. It doesn't like to melt and run off. I can fit 4 cars side by side. I know pitch isn't good enough but that's a dillema without getting runoff in the garage.

This would be expected to fail eventually, I have no delusion of a permanent solution. Nothing is up here.

If you got your gravel real smooth and then applied portland cement and watered it in real good it would sure be worth a try...I have a neighbor that did that and it set up like a concrete drive..

 

[dave1949]

Welcome to TBN!

Looking at your overhead pic: standing on the road and facing the garage, I would make a drainage swale on the right side of the driveway and direct the water into the woods towards the stream.

The swale should be at it deepest/lowest point at least 3 or 4 car lengths out from your overhead door, then continue the swale to the garage rising up from that low point. The swale should be gentle enough to be mowable in summer.

Then do what you can to put a crown on the driveway keeping the crown more to the left side of the driveway farthest from the swale.

Getting your drainage setup is required no matter what you do later and will help right away. If you get the drainage working well, you will have a much better idea about what is needed. I wouldn't use plastic pipe along a driveway, the frost will work it up over time.

Aside from pavement, there is no cure for Spring 'mud season' slop on the driveway. The air is warm enough to melt the top 1" or 2" of the drive but there is frost underneath preventing the water from seeping down through and away.

I wouldn't depend on roadside drainage, the town and state are usually 15 years behind in cleaning their drainages

Good luck.
Dave.

 

[MarkV]

It sounds like much of your water is coming from a public road. Have you considered calling the city/county engineer for see if they have any suggestions?

MarkV