Discbine help - newbie

[labsrus]

I hope some people can give me some help on this -
My father-in-law would like to get a discbine but we are both newbies to this. Can you give me some information about discbines compared to haybines? Also I see the word moco on some of the discbines - what does this mean?
Thanks for any help and opinions.
Doug

 

[rankrank1]

"Haybine = is actually a trademark name of New Holland. The have a sickle bar cutter and then pass through the rollers for conditioning. The haybine name frequently gets used improperly to other brands similar to how many people improperly refer to all locking pliers as "Vise-Grips" or photo copies as "Xerox" copies.

"MoCo" may be a trademark name for John Deere (not sure). Anyway it is an abbreviation for a mower conditioner that utilizes a sickle bar for the cutter and rollers for the conditioner. (i.e. it actually is the competitor's equivalent to the New Holland haybine). All other brands besides New Holland that utilize a sickle bar and roller conditioners will be called either moco's or mower conditioners.

As for Discmowers or discbines: they use disc blades to cut with instead of the sickle bar. The disc cutters can usually travel at much faster speeds as compared to a sickle type cutter. However the disc cutters are usually pricey and can be very expensive to repair. Generally speaking discbines are generally used by people who do lots of acres of hay due to their costs. Smaller operations typically go with either a basic sickle mower (no conditioning), a haybine or equivalent moco (which adds conditioning rollers), or another alternative is the drum mowers such as hay-maxx which cut fast like a disc mower but are much simpler in design to avoid the costly repairs. The drum mowers do not have conditioning rollers, but they allow cutting in wet and heavy dew-type conditions where sickle cutters are limited to slower speeds and drier post-dew conditons.

 

[JasG]

rankrank1:

Your almost right. Haybine is what NH refers to with sickle bar and conditioner. Diskbine is what they have been calling the disk mowers with conditioner.

John Deere has been calling any mower conditioner a MoCo. Right now Deere has dropped sickle bar mower conditioners from there line, they only sell disk mowers with conditioners.

As far as the differences, disk mowers are 2 to 4 times faster than a sickle bar mower. The basic maintenance is easier and cheaper. A complete set of knives is only a fraction the cost of a cutter bar and no guards to worry about. The speed is not only from going faster, but with a haybine it seems like the least little thing and you end up with a slug on the cutter bar and need to stop back up to clear it. Also finishing a field if you pick up a row already mowed a sickle bar will tend to drag that hay where a disk mower will just send it through the machine again. Disk mowers also have a choice of conditioners, rollers, be it steel, rubber, or urethane, or some kind of impeller. I have a good friend that I help with his haying and we went from a haybine to a disk MoCo 6 years ago and love it. It has the impeller and seem to do a very good job. Disk mower seem to handle wet hay better than a haybine and heavy hay.

Now when something does break, it can cost a lot. We have had 2 disk bearings go and it damaged sections of the cutter bar. Each time the cost was around $2500.00 having the work done at a dealer. I would also never run a disk mower of any kind without a cab tractor (most mfg recommend this in the specs). The reason being is when you hit a stone, even with the heavy curtain in the front they do fly where ever and at least 3 time over the years while I was mowing the cab has been hit. I know my friend has also said he was glad to have the cab for the same reason. Disk mowers also take more Hp to "start" and mow with than a regular sickle bar mower.

 

[rankrank1]

rankrank1:

Your almost right. Haybine is what NH refers to with sickle bar and conditioner...

JasG,

If I am almost right, then what was wrong? Your description of a haybine seems identical to my description. As for your claim that John Deere calls any mower conditioner a moco regardless of the cutter style, I can not really dispute it as I do not look at the brand new factory adds as I can not afford the new stuff. However, in almost all used adds that I look at; the word "disc" will preceed the word mower (for a mower only) or the word moco (a mower and a conditioner). Adds not specifying the word disc almost always utilize the sickle cutter- remembering that discbine is trademarked to New Holland for a disc cutter and conditioning system.

Lastly, good point of pointing out the need for a cab tractor when using disc type cutters. I have read many stories of shattered windows using the disc cutters - one can only imagine what might have happened if the cab had not been there for added safety.

 

[flusher]

I hope some people can give me some help on this -
My father-in-law would like to get a discbine but we are both newbies to this. Can you give me some information about discbines compared to haybines? Also I see the word moco on some of the discbines - what does this mean?
Thanks for any help and opinions.
Doug

One other thing--for a given size mower, haybines (the sicklebar type) generally require less pto hp than the same size discbine. So be careful when you're eyeballing discbines that your tractor can handle the hp load.

 

[flusher]

One final thing--discbine blade turn at very high speed and can toss rocks and debris in your direction. That's why a cab is a nice safety feature when using that type of mower. I've seen several tractor cabs in for repair of windows that were pretty well smashed by discbine debris. Personally, I wouldn't rely solely on the discbine curtains to keep flying stuff from heading my way. I'd provide backup. For example, when I use my brush hog mower, I have an expanded metal panel attached via hose clamps to my ROPS on my Mahindra 5525 to protect my backside.

 

[labsrus]

I just want to thank all of you for the help and descriptions of the 2 types of cutters. Now to determine if the discbine would be good for us.
Again, a big thanks for the help!
Doug

 

[Barry Bowen]

Most of the information you guys have put up is pretty well spot on interms of the differences between a haybine and an discbine. Haybines take much less power and are nowhere near as quick. Discbines are horsepower pigs. To really run one you need 100 HP to not work the tractor to death. Discbines are as fast as the field is smooth, and the operator has guts and skill. I have an old New Idea 5209. LOVE IT. Will not go back to a haybine by choice anyway. Pulled it with a 706 IH turned up to around 80 HP. It was just not enough in heavy first cutting. Pull it now with a 1066, what a difference. Just for fun, I have pulled it for short experimental time in 7th gear running around 12MPH in heavy heavy first cut. It did the job, and did it well. Normally run in 5th and 6th gear 5-7 MPH about 4-5 acres an hour. Once you use a discbine or disc mower you will never want to go back.

Maintenance wise there are two basic cutter bar designs, segmented, or one piece with idlers. The segments like NH and any AGCO machine (still makes the first design they sold and is still quite popular) have their advantages in that if one cutter goes down it is cheaper and easier to fix. Machines from Kuhn for example are one piece with idlers in an oil bath. Disavantage, one gear or bearing goes down you usually loose the entire cutter bar like the 2500 number from JD. Conditioning can be done with rollers or flails. If you are doing alfalfa you want the rollers, much easier on the leaves. If you do grass you want the flails as the make the grass dry faster by striping some of the wax off of the leaves instead of bending stems.

If you have the HP to turn it and can afford it get the discbine will not disapoint. If you are only doing a little bit and time is not critical the haybine will get the job done just fine.

 

[bill in ny]

barry, you're new idea must pull hard. i pull a 9' new holland with a 75pto hp. tractor and i can go as fast as i want.

 

[JasG]

"

"MoCo" may be a trademark name for John Deere (not sure). Anyway it is an abbreviation for a mower conditioner that utilizes a sickle bar for the cutter and rollers for the conditioner.
AsQUOTE]

The is where I think you are not correct. MoCo goes back I believe to the 900 series disc mowers, and has been on the disc machines since at least 1996, I think earlier. I didn't see it on a sickle bar till later in the 1990's. A farm near my dads house had an early 90's sickle bar with conditioner Deere and I do not remember it saying MoCo. Basically I believe it was alway to mean mower conditioner, didn't make a difference of the type.