Diesel Rebuild

yooperdave · May 2, 2002

I have a 3 cylinder diesel engine on a toro greensmower.
We always engaged the glow plugs to start the mower - even in the Summer months.

The engine has been losing power, so we had our mechanic try to fix it. After many hours and a host of new parts to no avail, we shipped the mower to the toro dealer to look at it.

The dealer said that our glowplugs were not warmed up long enough to burn all of the fuel when starting. This condition
over a few seasons screwed up the engine. We have a choice to "fix" the engine for another $4,000, or to put on a
new short block for $6,500.

I thought that diesel engines should last much longer than their gasoline counterparts. The mower new is over $30,000.

Questions:

Why does the engine start by glow plugs but not burn up the appropriate quantity of fuel?

Is the toro dealer giving us a line?

We can now add a switch to the ignition which will not let the engine start prematurely for a few hundred bucks - it seems to me that this switch should have been on the machine in the first place.

Should we just get the engine running, or should we get a new short block? The mower is used for 1 hour a day, every day for 6 months a year.

Do tractors also have this problem?

Your input will be appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

TresCrows · May 3, 2002

And I got a bridge to sell you in AZ. J

njrqs · May 3, 2002

Dave

I have not heard of that condition before (Mind you I am no diesel expert but have owned a few)

What exactly is wrong with the engine? Has the unburnt fuel washed the bores? - This is a problem if the injectors aren't set up correctly and too much fuel is injected.

I can't see why use or no use of glow plugs would cause problems. All they do in my opion is assist the cylinders get up to operating temperature for proper combustion to occur.

If they aren't hot enough the thing won't fire.

I'd get a second opion on that one (Or wait for a more edumakated person than me to answer)

Cheers

Gomez · May 3, 2002

<font color=red>The dealer said that our glowplugs were not warmed up long enough to burn all of the fuel when starting. This condition
over a few seasons screwed up the engine.</font color=red>

At first, it doesn't make much sense. Kind of like, the "piston return springs" are bad./w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

But, it would be nice to know the mechanism of failure the mechanic is talking about. Any chance of getting a better explanation from him?

yooperdave · May 3, 2002

I'll see what I can find out. My parents own a golf course in the U.P. of Michigan.

I know we had to replace at least one of the injectors as part of this ongoing fix.

Turf equipment appears to be a monopoly between toro and jacobsen with john deere making a little dent. The terretories are strictly enforced and the dealers charge more than any diesel mechanic ever dreamed of.

Dave

justractors · May 3, 2002

Dave,
Is your dealer out of Spata MI or out of Wisconsin or Minnesota?
Are you running the 3000D machine or one of the newer ones?
I have rebuilt several of the Toro diesels and have done it for much less than $4k.
As far as the preheater causing your problem it sure is a new one on me. The only problem I could see would be that the diesel is not being burned and washing down the cylinder walls and this would have had to be an ongoing problem for many starts. The diesel fuel would do a much better job of lubricating the cylinder walls than would gasoline, but unless I did a compression check it would be very hard to say for sure.
I am a semi-retired Turf Equipment Tech and live about an hour below the bridge. I would be willing to come up and take a look if you were interested.
My email address is in my profile.
Thanks,
Bill

yooperdave · May 4, 2002

Hi Bill,

The machine in question is a 3000D. We have been using our backup - a greensmaster 3 to startup the season. We bought the greensmaster 3 new back in the late 70's or early 80's. That machine has been very reliable. We bought the 3000D slightly used in the mid 90's as an upgrade to our aging mower. The 3000D I guess had 500 to 700 hours on it, and the engine was already rebuilt (a hint of hindsight here...)

The Toro dealer is based near Milwaukee, WI, and serves the greater Wisconsin and Upper Michigan territiores. They had the testing equipment which we lacked. 2 of the 3 cylinders now have very little compression.

I am going down to pick up the mower in many pieces and hauling it back home. If worse comes to worse, I can buy a brand new Toro specified gasoline engine for that mower for a little over a $1,000. Are there any traps that you know of by changing the engines?

I felt this dealers service, support, and prices were way out of line. The Jacobsen dealer has been making a better effort to service us, and we have been buying lots of equipment from him over the past several years.

Thank you Bill for your input. If you would like to drive the 4+ hours to our course, we would only expect to give you our finest complimentary service. We do not want you to drive over to get greasy - just to play some golf, and to trade some stories.

Regards,

Dave