Diesel Log Splitter-Hydraulic Tank & Valve ?'s

[LanceH]

Hey folks,

As I am nearing completion on the frame for my homemade log splitter but have a few questions before I begin the hydraulic system.

Question #1:homemade hydraulic fluid tank:
I have fabbed up a tank of about 14 usable gallons out of 1/8" steel sheeting. It is roughly 20" long x 15" tall x 12" wide. I would like ask your advice on where to put the suction and return ports. I would like to put at least one baffle wall down the center (about 1" short of the height and 3" short of the inside length). There will be a 9hp diesel engine powering a 16 gpm pump so depending on how the hydraulic oil flows through the system and dumps out of the return weld-o-let, will depend on where i mount that baffle wall. [Hard to describe without a photo or sketch] If you can decipher what I'm trying to describe, would it be OK to put the suction port on the lower (front) side and the return on the upper (back ) side?

Question #2: Hose size to and from valve
Surplus Center, Northern Tools, and ebay all sell control valves and I can choose either 1/2" or 3/4" work ports. If I'm running a 9hp engine and a 5x24x2 cylinder, should I buy the larger, 3/4" work port valve? I dont want to negativly impact the performance of the system by going to the smaller work ports. What do you all think i should buy?

Question #3: one Detent or Two
for the same price (from Northern) ($100) is it worth the risk to go to a two way detent? For those of you with this type-how do you like it? Ive read the reviews from those who have bought them from Northern Tool and the just say to be careful but thats about all...heres the link: Prince Two-Way Detent Valve, Model# LS-3010-2 | Detent Valves | Northern Tool + Equipment

Let me know what you all think and I'll be sure to post up some pictures of my project when I wrap her up.

Thanks a lot for your advice, suggestions, and input.
-Lance

 

[AKKAMAAN]

would it be OK to put the suction port on the lower (front) side and the return on the upper (back ) side?

That sound good to me...just make sure the return never will be above the lowest fluid level.....
Also make sure the return cant "shoot" straight into suction...(baffles)

.....a globe is the volume with least ambient surface area and then will have the least cooling capacity....To make a tank with high cooling capacity, make a tall narrow tank...a perfect tank would look like cooling/heating radiator...a lot of ambient surface area...

Question #2: Hose size to and from valve
Surplus Center, Northern Tools, and ebay all sell control valves and I can choose either 1/2" or 3/4" work ports. If I'm running a 9hp engine and a 5x24x2 cylinder, should I buy the larger, 3/4" work port valve? I dont want to negativly impact the performance of the system by going to the smaller work ports. What do you all think i should buy?

Go with 3/4" WORK PORTS!!! SEE HOSE RECOMMENDATIONS BELOW...

To stay below max recommended fluid velocity, you will need at least 5/8" pressure lines, 1" return line and 1 1/2"-2" suction line..

Question #3: one Detent or Two
for the same price (from Northern) ($100) is it worth the risk to go to a two way detent? For those of you with this type-how do you like it? Ive read the reviews from those who have bought them from Northern Tool and the just say to be careful but thats about all...heres the link: Prince Two-Way Detent Valve, Model# LS-3010-2 | Detent Valves | Northern Tool + Equipment

I would go with the Prince rd5200, a 2 spool valve ...second spool for your future log lift...this valve can handle 3000psi compared to 2500psi for the 3010 valve...

You are definitely on the right track about preventing future problems.....being aware of the negatives about under sizing ports and hoses....Just do not go "cheap" on your nice homebuilt splitter....make it perfect from scratch....

 

[Willl]

just make sure the return never will be above the lowest fluid level

Cause the splashing action would create foam ?

 

[aczlan]

Question #3: one Detent or Two
for the same price (from Northern) ($100) is it worth the risk to go to a two way detent? For those of you with this type-how do you like it? Ive read the reviews from those who have bought them from Northern Tool and the just say to be careful but thats about all...heres the link:

I would go with a single detent and use that for the retract function. That way if something happens, the ram stops extending as soon as you let go of the handle.
I agree on getting a 2 spool valve to power a loglifter down the road. Not much more now, but if you split anything larger than 12" across, your back will appreciate a loglifter (with the smaller stuff I have been known to use the loglifter as a preload table and have my "loader" stack 4-5 pieces on it that I can just roll down when I finish with the current one.

One thought on design, my parents and the neighbor built and share a logsplitter, it has the wedge at the end and a flat pusher plate mounted to the ram. That makes it very convenient to let it dump the split wood off the end. My FIL has a splitter from tractor supply, it has a stationary end plate and a wedge mounted to the ram. It has to be that way for the vertical/horizontal piece to work, but you have to do more work to keep the area right next to the splitter clear.
If you are going to have this be a horizontal only splitter, make the flat plate move and the wedge fixed.


Aaron Z

 

[AKKAMAAN]

Cause the splashing action would create foam ?

the splashing will aerate the oil...more bubbles than foam.....will make oil act like compressed air in the system....that will create heat and "spring effects"...

 

[LanceH]

That sound good to me...just make sure the return never will be above the lowest fluid level.........

Should I just try to calculate how much fluid wil be utilized by the system when the ram is fully extended, then subtract that amount from the normal level in the tank?

Also make sure the return cant "shoot" straight into suction...(baffles)

that was my question-will the fluid 'shoot' out or have a 'slower flow'? This will help me determine where to put the vertical opening in the baffle wall. Maybe a better way to phrase it is how should I design the center baffle wall?

.....a globe is the volume with least ambient surface area and then will have the least cooling capacity....To make a tank with high cooling capacity, make a tall narrow tank...a perfect tank would look like cooling/heating radiator...a lot of ambient surface area...

I would agree with more surface area and I tried to make it taller, longer and more narrow, at least as much as i could.

Go with 3/4" WORK PORTS!!! SEE HOSE RECOMMENDATIONS BELOW...

To stay below max recommended fluid velocity, you will need at least 5/8" pressure lines, 1" return line and 1 1/2"-2" suction line..

I would go with the Prince rd5200, a 2 spool valve ...second spool for your future log lift...this valve can handle 3000psi compared to 2500psi for the 3010 valve...

You are definitely on the right track about preventing future problems.....being aware of the negatives about under sizing ports and hoses....Just do not go "cheap" on your nice homebuilt splitter....make it perfect from scratch....

thanks for the advice and nice work with the image! I knew there was a reason Timberwolf splitters had that big suction line. I dont know if I'll put a log lift on it in the future as 90% of the 6 cords of wood I split per year are 20-24" or smaller.

 

[Oliver1655]

In respect to the size of the suction and return lines:
- Suction - Find out what size hose your pump requires. While it is true that less resistance (larger hose) will be less heat you will generate, since most suction ports on the 2 stage pumps used on log splitter is a slip over connection and not threaded, you will find it much simpler to match the hose size to the nipple.
- Return size - Most builders will install a hydraulic filter between the valves and the reservoir. The filter heads commonly used have a NPT 3/4" in and out ports. As the valve also uses a 3/4" out, you will most likely be using a 3/4" hose between the two. From the filter head you can increase the hose size to 1 1/2" or 2". The larger size hose will slow down the velocity, decrease resistance(Heat), and decrease the potential for foaming. :thumbsup:

 

[AKKAMAAN]

Should I just try to calculate how much fluid wil be utilized by the system when the ram is fully extended, then subtract that amount from the normal level in the tank?

There is no "normal" level in the tank...it is a highest possible level, when oil is hot, full of air bubbles, and all cylinders are retracted.....and a lowest level when oil is cold, free from air and all cylinders are extended....any thing between that is "normal"...the level fluctuation mainly depends on the volume of the piston rod....piston rod in and out make level go up and down....fill your tank when cylinder is retracted...leave 10% air space for expansion....

that was my question-will the fluid 'shoot' out or have a 'slower flow'? This will help me determine where to put the vertical opening in the baffle wall. Maybe a better way to phrase it is how should I design the center baffle wall?

If you look at nomogram, you can see that 16gpm flow through a 1" hose is coming at almost 10 ft/sec velocity...good idea to have a bigger return opening into tank.....:thumbsup:

I would agree with more surface area and I tried to make it taller, longer and more narrow, at least as much as i could.

Most important to have a tank size that let oil "rest" for 1-2 minutes (16-32 gallon tank)...but that depends on how must energy you let go into heat.....friction through undersized valves, hoses etc

thanks for the advice and nice work with the image! I knew there was a reason Timberwolf splitters had that big suction line. I dont know if I'll put a log lift on it in the future as 90% of the 6 cords of wood I split per year are 20-24" or smaller.

at least make sure your single spool valve have Power Beyond option, for a future additional valve....

 

[LanceH]

That sound good to me...just make sure the return never will be above the lowest fluid level.....
Also make sure the return cant "shoot" straight into suction...(baffles)

.....a globe is the volume with least ambient surface area and then will have the least cooling capacity....To make a tank with high cooling capacity, make a tall narrow tank...a perfect tank would look like cooling/heating radiator...a lot of ambient surface area...




Go with 3/4" WORK PORTS!!! SEE HOSE RECOMMENDATIONS BELOW...

To stay below max recommended fluid velocity, you will need at least 5/8" pressure lines, 1" return line and 1 1/2"-2" suction line..

I would go with the Prince rd5200, a 2 spool valve ...second spool for your future log lift...this valve can handle 3000psi compared to 2500psi for the 3010 valve...

You are definitely on the right track about preventing future problems.....being aware of the negatives about under sizing ports and hoses....Just do not go "cheap" on your nice homebuilt splitter....make it perfect from scratch....

Ok, I'm bulking up my efforts to finally figure out my hose sizes so I can put my final order of parts in.

Akkamaan...Again thanks for turning me onto these nomograms. I will be buying the valve with the 3/4" in, out, and work ports. My question comes in that the diagram shows that my suction line should be larger than 1.5" and the return should be larger than 3/4". Where do I make these transitions at??? On the suction side, my 16gpm pump has a 1" barb style fitting-how do I transition up to a 2"? And again on the return side, I can buy a filter head that has 1" ports, but do I just jump up to a 1" hose when the fluid exits the control valve?

If you or anyone can help point me in the right direction, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

Akkamaan...Again thanks for turning me onto these nomograms.

My Pleasure! Good Luck Now! Please keep us updated!:thumbsup: