Diesel engine care information.
- Thread starter Kendrick
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grsthegreat
Super Star Member
are additives necessary? i have a 45 also
jonyyuma
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I was wondering if SCA is a necessary item. Most real large engines with wet sleeves use the treatment?Plus it is inside the coolant filters that we buy for our gen-sets.No guessing. I don't know about Kioti 45 engine , type or size?
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
good queston, as the owners manual nor the service manual say to add anything.
Lloyd_E
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I had a problem with gunk (dead algee in diesel) forming in the gas tank and filling the pre-prime pump. Whe put an in-line filter in but the dealer suggested I always use the kioti additive with the fuel. It does a number of things as well as adds lubrication...
Lloyd
Lloyd
unhappykioti
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I believe these engines do not have piston liners, I know that my CK 20 does not. Therefore no liners no need for SCA or DCA. One of the reasons DCA is used is to reduce cavitation around the liners which is what causes liner pitting it also balances the coolant ph because of some sort of electrolyosis caused by fluid flowing around liners. No expert but I believe this is a correct explanation.
robert thomas
Member
my dealer suggested the use of the additive(for control of alge and for cold weather) my tractor (dk45) never sits more than three days between uses so nothing has time to grow in the tank. I use it anyway. better safe than have an injector or filter problem later. jmo
some of you are thinking of the fuel system which is not what i was meaning. In my F350 IDI SCA keeps cavitation from happening and is added to the coolent. they mentioned in the cavitation document that newer engines had elc or something so I was trying to figure out what mine used and if it needed any treatment. see below link for the explination, really good info.
TikiWiki : Cavitation - The Complete Guide
Jony: Denhartog? 45hp I am tempted to get one of those filters for my 350 but thats down the line a bit.
unhappy: Depends on the engine. my 7.3IDI is not wet and is prone to cavitation. it is possible to sleve it down to a 6.9 from what i under stand due to it just being an over boored 6.9 and is a solution to it.
TikiWiki : Cavitation - The Complete Guide
Jony: Denhartog? 45hp I am tempted to get one of those filters for my 350 but thats down the line a bit.
unhappy: Depends on the engine. my 7.3IDI is not wet and is prone to cavitation. it is possible to sleve it down to a 6.9 from what i under stand due to it just being an over boored 6.9 and is a solution to it.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
Kendrick mentioned the 7.3 IDI engine needing it - Also almost three million International T444E 7.3L DI engines (Powerstroke was Fords name) were built and they ALL also need the additive, parent bore, no liners.
MichiganIron
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Daedong (Kioti) Diesels have dry sleeve cylinder liners. A fuel additive is a good idea, even recommended, to increase the lubrication and cetane values of the fuel. It also helps reduce gelling in cold temperatures. Kioti does recommend a fuel additive, and has a KIOTI Branded additive available at it's dealers.
unhappykioti
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I wholeheartedly agree with fuel additives I think the original question was concerning SCA which is a coolant additive is it not. I know that wet sleeves diesels require an additive my Cummins in my Dodge requires it as does my N14 Cummins which I rebuilt at 1.2 million miles and there was no liner pitting because I check it every fifteen thousand miles when I change my engine oil. We were talking about Kioti tractors that don't require the use of DCA or SCA or Pencool or what ever other coolant additives are out there.
Highbeam
Super Member
Read the manual. No SCA is specified. The coolant section actually allows you to pretty much use any standard coolant. I did the manual required coolant change and used regular PEAK brand antifreeze at 50/50.
The use of wet or dry sleeves has nothing to do with it. As stated my parent bore 7.3 powerstroke requires the SCA. How many powerstroke truck owners even know this? Very very few. Even most dealers don't know this.
The use of wet or dry sleeves has nothing to do with it. As stated my parent bore 7.3 powerstroke requires the SCA. How many powerstroke truck owners even know this? Very very few. Even most dealers don't know this.
Might not be required but I use SCA containing antifreeze in everything I own...doesn't hurt to use it....and no worries if it is spec'ed.
I buy the FleetCharge at TSC then I just have to keep one type of antifreeze on hand...
Re: the Powerstrokes needing it- have a guy at work with one near 100,000 miles..I've mentioned it to him several times and he just shrugs....doesn't use it:confused2:
Wanne bet he'll scream his head off if he has cavitation erosion and needs a $7000 motor
I buy the FleetCharge at TSC then I just have to keep one type of antifreeze on hand...
Re: the Powerstrokes needing it- have a guy at work with one near 100,000 miles..I've mentioned it to him several times and he just shrugs....doesn't use it:confused2:
Wanne bet he'll scream his head off if he has cavitation erosion and needs a $7000 motor
skyco its 4k got the reciept from the previous owner who got the truck from his brother? who chewed up the engine by not putting sca in... engine has 30k on it right now.
all I was meaning only antifreeze treatments. plan to run part bio to deal with lubricity... some forum i found where they sent several additives to a lab for indepenant testing. plain lsd was 56 lubricity rating. adding moter oil didnt do squat. several off shelf additives got it around 100-130? there was 1 or 2 that got it 200+ and the bio was like 450-80 cant remember off hand.
got the reciept from the previous owner who got the truck from his brother? who chewed up the engine by not putting sca in... engine has 30k on it right now. all I was meaning only antifreeze treatments. plan to run part bio to deal with lubricity... some forum i found where they sent several additives to a lab for indepenant testing. plain lsd was 56 lubricity rating. adding moter oil didnt do squat. several off shelf additives got it around 100-130? there was 1 or 2 that got it 200+ and the bio was like 450-80 cant remember off hand.
mx5guy
Silver Member
I found this article online and explains what the algae really is and promotes a product that will clean it up, I have not used this product, but sounds intersting and it doe debunk the algae theory
.
Most people who operate and maintain Diesel engine systems are familiar with the black slimy material frequently seen in their fuel filter elements, and found in the bottoms of their fuel tanks. It is known by many names e.g. algae, mud, sludge, dirt, BS&W:confused2: , and many other unsavory sounding terms - all of which are misnomers. Many people think this material is some sort of microbe, thus in the marine industry, it is most commonly called "algae". While bacteria and other microbes contribute to and accelerate this process, sludge is no more bacteria than milk that has turned into cottage cheese - it's still milk, only in a physically different form -- Diesel fuel forms wax and asphalt, not "algae".
To understand the source and nature of this material, it is helpful to know a little about how Diesel Fuel and other distillate products are made in today's modern refineries. In the "old days" (15 - 25 years ago) processing of crude oil into the light distillate products we all know as gasoline, Kerosene, home heating oil, jet fuel, and diesel was basically done through heating the crude oil. At different boiling points, the various fractions of the crude were evaporated then condensed and sent to a storage tank for distribution. The distillate product, diesel fuel included, were fairly stable products with shelf life measured in the several months range.
The residual oil left over after the distillation process, approximately 50% of the barrel of crude that we start with, is the very heavy oils that are used for large ships and power plants, along with other industrial applications e.g. manufacture of products such as plastics, pharmaceuticals, nylon, asphalt, etc.
The refining process is dramatically different today. Demand for these light distillate products has increased rapidly, forcing the refiners to find new ways to extract more of them from the crude oil. Catalytic, or chemical cracking now allows the refiner to make more of the valuable lighter distillates from each barrel of crude, leaving only about 16% of the residual as heavy fuel oils. Environmental concerns have resulted in additional treatment of diesel, for example to lower sulphur content. This also contributes to instability of today's fuels.
Diesel fuel refined with these new methods is far less stable than that made with simple distillation. This results in more rapid deterioration in the form of solids precipitating to make sludge. Key fuel components such as paraffins and asphaltenes begin to oxidize and re-polymerize resulting in dark coloration, clogged filters and tank sludge that is commonly called "algae". In reality, this stuff is actually wax and asphalt !!
When this condition is present, the fuel does not combust rapidly causing a loss of engine efficiency. When the exhaust ports open, still smoldering fuel clusters become smoke and soot, leaving carbon buildup in the engine and exhaust trunk. Eventually, when it precipitates to the bottom of the tank, or is trapped in your filter, these key components cannot contribute to transferring the energy in the fuel to power the engine.
So the cause of the so called "algae" is simply the result of ageing fuel, which can occur in as little as 60-90 days, and depending on the cleanliness, and maintenance of the tanks in which it is kept, possibly even sooner.
The results of using fuel in this condition include
Tank Sludge that must be removed manually or dissolved with chemicals
Clogged filters that must be replaced(and disposed of)
Incomplete combustion
Wasted BTU's
Smoking engines
Carbon Deposits in the engine
Shortening the life of major (read expensive) engine components
Dirty engine Oil
Poor engine performance
Solutions for Recovering Diesel Fuel Quality
Traditional technologies used to protect engines from poor quality fuel include filtration to remove particulate e.g. dirt and sludge, separation of water content, and use of biocides to control microbial activity, which can contribute to more rapid formation of solids. Equipment to provide this protection is of course, still necessary. However, what many operators are seeing is a much shorter life of the filter elements, resulting in more frequent filter changes. This is due to the paraffins and asphaltenes (and other fuel components) having re-polymerized, or agglomerated to form solids. This will happen even without the presence of microbes, so biocides cannot prevent this problem from occurring.
Summary
Today's Diesel Fuel is refined in a much different way than that of 15-20 years ago. Catalytic cracking produces a far greater volume of light and middle distillate products from each barrel of crude oil, however the stability of the fuels has been dramatically shortened.
Key fuel components such as paraffins and asphaltenes begin to form clusters that precipitate into the sludge commonly known as "algae". They comprise the bulk of this material that clogs filters, causes engines to smoke and perform poorly, and makes tank sludge.
ALGAE-X stops and reverses this process by impacting these clusters of molecules with inductive energy. This breaks up the clusters that have formed resulting in better filterability and combustibility of the fuel, and preventing the formation of tank sludge by the return line, which delivers clean treated fuel back to the tanks.
.
Most people who operate and maintain Diesel engine systems are familiar with the black slimy material frequently seen in their fuel filter elements, and found in the bottoms of their fuel tanks. It is known by many names e.g. algae, mud, sludge, dirt, BS&W:confused2: , and many other unsavory sounding terms - all of which are misnomers. Many people think this material is some sort of microbe, thus in the marine industry, it is most commonly called "algae". While bacteria and other microbes contribute to and accelerate this process, sludge is no more bacteria than milk that has turned into cottage cheese - it's still milk, only in a physically different form -- Diesel fuel forms wax and asphalt, not "algae".
To understand the source and nature of this material, it is helpful to know a little about how Diesel Fuel and other distillate products are made in today's modern refineries. In the "old days" (15 - 25 years ago) processing of crude oil into the light distillate products we all know as gasoline, Kerosene, home heating oil, jet fuel, and diesel was basically done through heating the crude oil. At different boiling points, the various fractions of the crude were evaporated then condensed and sent to a storage tank for distribution. The distillate product, diesel fuel included, were fairly stable products with shelf life measured in the several months range.
The residual oil left over after the distillation process, approximately 50% of the barrel of crude that we start with, is the very heavy oils that are used for large ships and power plants, along with other industrial applications e.g. manufacture of products such as plastics, pharmaceuticals, nylon, asphalt, etc.
The refining process is dramatically different today. Demand for these light distillate products has increased rapidly, forcing the refiners to find new ways to extract more of them from the crude oil. Catalytic, or chemical cracking now allows the refiner to make more of the valuable lighter distillates from each barrel of crude, leaving only about 16% of the residual as heavy fuel oils. Environmental concerns have resulted in additional treatment of diesel, for example to lower sulphur content. This also contributes to instability of today's fuels.
Diesel fuel refined with these new methods is far less stable than that made with simple distillation. This results in more rapid deterioration in the form of solids precipitating to make sludge. Key fuel components such as paraffins and asphaltenes begin to oxidize and re-polymerize resulting in dark coloration, clogged filters and tank sludge that is commonly called "algae". In reality, this stuff is actually wax and asphalt !!
When this condition is present, the fuel does not combust rapidly causing a loss of engine efficiency. When the exhaust ports open, still smoldering fuel clusters become smoke and soot, leaving carbon buildup in the engine and exhaust trunk. Eventually, when it precipitates to the bottom of the tank, or is trapped in your filter, these key components cannot contribute to transferring the energy in the fuel to power the engine.
So the cause of the so called "algae" is simply the result of ageing fuel, which can occur in as little as 60-90 days, and depending on the cleanliness, and maintenance of the tanks in which it is kept, possibly even sooner.
The results of using fuel in this condition include
Tank Sludge that must be removed manually or dissolved with chemicals
Clogged filters that must be replaced(and disposed of)
Incomplete combustion
Wasted BTU's
Smoking engines
Carbon Deposits in the engine
Shortening the life of major (read expensive) engine components
Dirty engine Oil
Poor engine performance
Solutions for Recovering Diesel Fuel Quality
Traditional technologies used to protect engines from poor quality fuel include filtration to remove particulate e.g. dirt and sludge, separation of water content, and use of biocides to control microbial activity, which can contribute to more rapid formation of solids. Equipment to provide this protection is of course, still necessary. However, what many operators are seeing is a much shorter life of the filter elements, resulting in more frequent filter changes. This is due to the paraffins and asphaltenes (and other fuel components) having re-polymerized, or agglomerated to form solids. This will happen even without the presence of microbes, so biocides cannot prevent this problem from occurring.
Summary
Today's Diesel Fuel is refined in a much different way than that of 15-20 years ago. Catalytic cracking produces a far greater volume of light and middle distillate products from each barrel of crude oil, however the stability of the fuels has been dramatically shortened.
Key fuel components such as paraffins and asphaltenes begin to form clusters that precipitate into the sludge commonly known as "algae". They comprise the bulk of this material that clogs filters, causes engines to smoke and perform poorly, and makes tank sludge.
ALGAE-X stops and reverses this process by impacting these clusters of molecules with inductive energy. This breaks up the clusters that have formed resulting in better filterability and combustibility of the fuel, and preventing the formation of tank sludge by the return line, which delivers clean treated fuel back to the tanks.
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