Decided to go with Kubota.

[aesanders]

Not commenting on unions, their need in todays world, or their value to America in general, other than to say they aren't high on my Christmas card list, BUT.... The FIRST Toyota plant to produce Tundra pick-ups is in Princeton Indiana. The employees there are members of the United Auto Workers. So are Toyota workers at the Georgetown Kentucky plant that produces Camry's.

I think you have some wrong information. Not 100% sure about the Princeton plant (although I'm pretty sure it is non union), but here is a recent article in May this year about the Georgetown plant being a NON-Union plant.

UAW shacks up at Holiday Inn near Toyota's Georgetown, KY plant - Autoblog

 

[gemini5362]

Builder your admonishing me about taking things out of context is a hoot. I have guilt about buying anything made in america or anywhere else. I feel that to compete we have to make at least equal quality products. I feel that american companies do make equal quality or better quality products in a lot of cases and I buy american when I see that or can. I have a whirlpool washer and dryer that is made in arkansas, I use baldor motors again an arkansas product. But those are relatively simple products in terms of production. As far as I know there are no tv, radio, computer products made in the US. Just about anything with wheels and a motor is made up of parts made all over the earth. If you try to buy items with the highest per centage made in america parts that you can I am proud of you. My ownly regret is that you dont have a larger selection to pick from. I try to buy everything based on the quality I need at a price to match. If I am buying tools that I am going to use one time and then toss in a box in my shop I will probably buy chinese because of the price difference. If it is something I am going to use once a month or more it is the highest quality I can get and I hope it is made in the USA. If it is something that is not made in the USA but for my needs or desires it is a better fit then I buy outside of the US. Since you keep mentioning my Porsche the only American Made production car that is in competition with it is a corvette which has a lot of parts made in mexico in it. I happen to prefer the Porsche over that Corvette. If someone makes an american made sports car that is comparable to the Porsche I will look at it. I also happen to have a 2006 silverado diesel. I believe the engine on it is made by Isuzu. I have to look but I believe you said you had a Ford super duty. chances are the fuel injectors for it are made by Bosche. as I said earlier I wished you could buy more american made products but the world is shrinking every year.

 

[Builder]

Builder your admonishing me about taking things out of context is a hoot. I have guilt about buying anything made in america or anywhere else. I feel that to compete we have to make at least equal quality products. I feel that american companies do make equal quality or better quality products in a lot of cases and I buy american when I see that or can. I have a whirlpool washer and dryer that is made in arkansas, I use baldor motors again an arkansas product. But those are relatively simple products in terms of production. As far as I know there are no tv, radio, computer products made in the US. Just about anything with wheels and a motor is made up of parts made all over the earth. If you try to buy items with the highest per centage made in america parts that you can I am proud of you. My ownly regret is that you dont have a larger selection to pick from. I try to buy everything based on the quality I need at a price to match. If I am buying tools that I am going to use one time and then toss in a box in my shop I will probably buy chinese because of the price difference. If it is something I am going to use once a month or more it is the highest quality I can get and I hope it is made in the USA. If it is something that is not made in the USA but for my needs or desires it is a better fit then I buy outside of the US. Since you keep mentioning my Porsche the only American Made production car that is in competition with it is a corvette which has a lot of parts made in mexico in it. I happen to prefer the Porsche over that Corvette. If someone makes an american made sports car that is comparable to the Porsche I will look at it. I also happen to have a 2006 silverado diesel. I believe the engine on it is made by Isuzu. I have to look but I believe you said you had a Ford super duty. chances are the fuel injectors for it are made by Bosche. as I said earlier I wished you could buy more american made products but the world is shrinking every year.

Maybe it's a hoot, but it's true, you are taking my comments out of context as this is turning into more of a witch hunt than a discussion.

It's this simple:

2 products similar in price in quality. (1) made in US, (1) made offshore.

I try to buy the US made product. It's that simple my friend. You keep coming back to me looking for trouble, but there's no trouble to find.

However, I still don't like your Porsche/Vette comparison because as you said, the porsche costs twice as much as the Vette.. What does the American Vette have to do? Outperform your Porsche AND cost 1/2 as much for you to buy it? I'm confused because I'm comparing similarly priced products.

Not for you because you have enough money to spend twice (I'm presuming $60K) as much for a car that handles better. I won't ask for proof, I'll believe you that it handles better. I would think with minimal effort & expense, the Vette could be made faster in a straight line race, if it already isn't stock. The vette might have some off-shore parts, but it's still an American made sports car. my guess is your Porsche has parts made outside of germany, so what are we talking about here? Nothing.

Me? I'd rather have the Vette and $60K in the bank, but that's my preference as I think you should have your's.

Have fun and don't be so astonished/indignant when someone expresses an opinion that's different from yours.

 

[DmansPadge]

A lot of threads end up like this... it's pretty ridiculous. Buy what you want to buy regardless of what the other guy does. We have problems in this country that are FAR WORSE than buying foreign engineering and/or manufacturing... and if those problems were fixed than discussions like these wouldn't even take place. Move on... please!! After all... this is a tractor forum.

 

[DavesTractor]

...... Since you keep mentioning my Porsche the only American Made production car that is in competition with it is a corvette which has a lot of parts made in mexico in it. I happen to prefer the Porsche over that Corvette. If someone makes an american made sports car that is comparable to the Porsche I will look at it. ......

I guess I'll have to drive a Porsche. I have a C5 Corvette and I can't imagine something handling better, at least significatly better. The acceleration is phenominal, sub 5 second 0-60, stock 1/4 mile times at about 13 seconds even, very nice build quality, and right at 30 MPG consistently at 80 MPH on cruise out on the open road. Built in Kentucky, and very impressive. Probably you are more skilled at driving at the edge of the envelope, and perhaps the Porsche has an advantage at that point. I know they are great cars and people love them. There is just something about an LS1 Vette going through the gears at or near redline...it's hard to beat!

I sell Mahindra tractors built in Japan, Korea, and India....so I guess I take an international/global look at things, but I still really appreciate a USA designed and made product. There just are not many, if any, genuine USA built small tractors. I know some assembly is done here and some content is from the USA, but there is no pure USA compact tractor as far as I know. Even our Japanese (Mitsubishi) built tractors have final assembly in the USA and use tires, batteries, loaders, backhoes, seats, etc., from the USA. So even the Mitsubishi product is a mix.

 

[gemini5362]

I guess I'll have to drive a Porsche. I have a C5 Corvette and I can't imagine something handling better, at least significatly better. The acceleration is phenominal, sub 5 second 0-60, stock 1/4 mile times at about 13 seconds even, very nice build quality, and right at 30 MPG consistently at 80 MPH on cruise out on the open road. Built in Kentucky, and very impressive. Probably you are more skilled at driving at the edge of the envelope, and perhaps the Porsche has an advantage at that point. I know they are great cars and people love them. There is just something about an LS1 Vette going through the gears at or near redline...it's hard to beat!

I sell Mahindra tractors built in Japan, Korea, and India....so I guess I take an international/global look at things, but I still really appreciate a USA designed and made product. There just are not many, if any, genuine USA built small tractors. I know some assembly is done here and some content is from the USA, but there is no pure USA compact tractor as far as I know. Even our Japanese (Mitsubishi) built tractors have final assembly in the USA and use tires, batteries, loaders, backhoes, seats, etc., from the USA. So even the Mitsubishi product is a mix.

Dave you have to go to a 911 to start getting the type of power in a porsche to match your vette. I have driven vettes before although not as much as my porsche and I feel like I can do more with the porsche. I do not drive it on the edge I am sure the porsche can take the corners I like to drive on a good 40 per cent faster with no problem. I dont have the reflexes or the nerve to push it to the limit. Owning the porsche is like a lot of other things a personal choice. I am kind of suprised at your gas mileage. My wife can get 29 mpg out of the porsche when she drives I get about 19 when I drive but 30 out of a vette is very good. Actually for pure fun driving check this car out I think it would put both the corvette and the porsche to shame in any kind of driving test you want to put it in Welcome to the Ariel Motor Atom web site

I have a montana tractor which has a mitsubishi engine and so far it has been a good tractor.

 

[Taiser]

Doesn't look like that thing has wipers, so it would never pass a safety to drive up here in Canada!

Looks pretty sweet though!

 

[Builder]

A lot of threads end up like this... it's pretty ridiculous. Buy what you want to buy regardless of what the other guy does. We have problems in this country that are FAR WORSE than buying foreign engineering and/or manufacturing... and if those problems were fixed than discussions like these wouldn't even take place. Move on... please!! After all... this is a tractor forum.

So what should we talk about? terrorism? Border security?

Of course there's far worse problems in this country! That's 1/2 the reason a lot of us come here-to get away from those very problems and have a good ol friendly debate and learn from each other. Gemeni and I might not agree, and I'll kick his butt 24/7 (just kiddin gemeni, you know I like ya), but we can still be civil and keep it about equipment, trucks, tractors, etc.

No need to talk about global warming just because it's more important.

 

[excelagator]

Builder,
I guess this sums it up for me. I buy is the best when it matters. Example, I recently bought a Millermatic 210, made in the good old US of A! This welder should last the rest of my years and I am supporting Wisconsinites in Appleton. My hat is of to ANY company that builds a great product and stands behind it. That is what sells people on a company.

If you would ask me to buy a American made car NO! I went down that route and had alot of problems with a 96 S-10 Blazer. I have had Toyota 4x4s and I currently have a 2001 Nissan Xterra that has 110,000 miles. I work it more than most that have a full size truck.

Since someone bought up unions I will comment on it that too. If someone is backed by a union why would they really care at doing a good job? It is rather hard to fire anyone with union backing. I have had first hand experience with union work. I worked for a company that has a job out of Canada. The welding work and pipe work had to be union for the for the contract to be honored. Yes, we did from raw to finish too at our company. So we got 2 local shops to do the work. The welding on the frames were horrible, 1/2 out of square on 6 out of 8 frames and the work was crap. The pipe fitting looked like a monkey did it and the work took twice as long. If the work was done in house it would have been much much better and non-union. I asked that how can we accept this kind of work and one said, "That is union work". Now that is my experience with union work.

Dan

 

[Builder]

Builder,
I guess this sums it up for me. I buy is the best when it matters. Example, I recently bought a Millermatic 210, made in the good old US of A! This welder should last the rest of my years and I am supporting Wisconsinites in Appleton. My hat is of to ANY company that builds a great product and stands behind it. That is what sells people on a company.

If you would ask me to buy a American made car NO! I went down that route and had alot of problems with a 96 S-10 Blazer. I have had Toyota 4x4s and I currently have a 2001 Nissan Xterra that has 110,000 miles. I work it more than most that have a full size truck.
Dan

Dan,

The only disagreement I have with your vehicle experiences is that GM and Ford have come a long way since 1996. Their vehicles have undergone tremendous improvements. I've owned several in the last 10 years and even though they get more complex, they seem to get better, quieter, and more comfortable with huge increases in HP.

Take my GMC 3500, for example. It's an '07 with 360HP, 650ft lbs torque, a 6 speed allison auto with gradient braking and a manual shift mode....quiet as a gas engine and gets 13-15 MPG in city driving. If I ordered that exact same GMC 3500 truck in 1996, it would have come with a 4 speed auto with no special features and a whopping 195HP/425 TQ diesel that was noisy and got ~13-15MPG. (I actually owned a '94 GMC 3500 with a 6.5TD). It can also tow more, carry more and has bigger differentials and suspension.

So in summary, what we have here is a 84% increase in HP, a 54% increase in torque, a much heavier duty transmission with 2 more gears and features only big trucks come with, and a much quieter inside/outside cabin noise but little or no loss in fuel economy. All that copupled with the ability to tow & haul more weight on a heavier suspension.

I think you'd experience similar improvements in your 1996 blazer example compared to today's 2007 GMC Envoy.

 

[Bird]

If you would ask me to buy a American made car NO! I went down that route and had alot of problems with a 96 S-10 Blazer.

One of my brothers recently traded his '96 S-10 pickup for a new Colorado. His S-10 only had 185k miles on it the last I knew; not sure how many more he put on it before trading. My '93 Ford Escort only had 121k on the odometer when my wife totalled it in '99. Until that day, there were no plans to replace it. And now my '01 Ford Windstar only has 84k on it and and my '01 Ford Ranger only has 53k on it. There are no plans to replace either.

 

[gemini5362]

Maybe it's a hoot, but it's true, you are taking my comments out of context as this is turning into more of a witch hunt than a discussion.

It's this simple:

2 products similar in price in quality. (1) made in US, (1) made offshore.

I try to buy the US made product. It's that simple my friend. You keep coming back to me looking for trouble, but there's no trouble to find.

However, I still don't like your Porsche/Vette comparison because as you said, the porsche costs twice as much as the Vette.. What does the American Vette have to do? Outperform your Porsche AND cost 1/2 as much for you to buy it? I'm confused because I'm comparing similarly priced products.



I dont recall saying that I had a 911 at 125,000 I probably wont get one. Too much money for me to spend on a car. I did look at the Carrera for about 80,000 but they have a back seat and to be honest I did not want a back seat nor did the extra horsepower do it for me. I have a Boxster which is the cheap porsche. They are similar in price to a vette. As a personal thing I like the boxster better. It is a mid engine vehicle and holds the road better than anything I have ever driven. I live in the mountains and do some fun driving when there is no traffic around. The boxster also has a front and rear trunk. That is enough room for my wife to put her laptop and overnight bag in one of the trunks and me to put my laptop and overnight bags in the other. It will not begin to keep up with the vette in quarter mile times and I dont need it to. It does to me seem to corner better but that is just an opinion. I will repeat that for customer service my porsche dealer is at a whole different level above the chevrolet dealer where I bought my truck which by the way they are just across the street from each other. I had a problem with my GPS system not having all the city streets on the map that I thought it should have. I pitched a pretty good fit about it because it is an expensive option. Porsche finally told my dealer that to use a different map they would have to load a different software program. I made an appointment to drive to Tulsa, OK to the dealership. When I got there and they started to load the software they found out that they had the wrong software for my car. I complained that it was a 2 hour drive each way and I was going to have to make it twice. The manager informed me that when the right software came in they would send a truck to get my porsche then take it back to the dealer load the software and then have the truck bring it back I would not have to worry about driving it back. I am very sure that the chevrolet dealer will not do that for me. But for someone wanting a high performance sports car made in the US the vette is a very good way to go. If I wanted to just get in the car and hit the gas and snap my head back I would pick the vette for that. It is like a most things different tastes for different palets.

Not for you because you have enough money to spend twice (I'm presuming $60K) as much for a car that handles better. I won't ask for proof, I'll believe you that it handles better. I would think with minimal effort & expense, the Vette could be made faster in a straight line race, if it already isn't stock. The vette might have some off-shore parts, but it's still an American made sports car. my guess is your Porsche has parts made outside of germany, so what are we talking about here? Nothing.

Me? I'd rather have the Vette and $60K in the bank, but that's my preference as I think you should have your's. AS I said above depending on the porsche you buy they are very comparbly priced.

Have fun and don't be so astonished/indignant when someone expresses an opinion that's different from yours.

I am married I am very used to someone expressing an opinion that is different from mine.

 

[Builder]

I am married I am very used to someone expressing an opinion that is different from mine.

Me too!!! Hahaha!

 

[coasterez]

Yep,

I know of several mid 90's S10's and Blazers that are still running with over 200K on them with little more than routine maintenance. I owned a 1990 K1500. Best truck I've ever been in. Kept it 11 years, 179K. Sold it 6 years ago to a man down the road. He's still driving it, and it still looks great.

Similar, and many, such stories can also be told about Ford and Chrysler/Dodge, and of course many of the imports. But, it is also good to see that quality is still getting better for all makes and models.

For me, I won't do myself a disservice and discount, out-of-hand, any make (even Fords and I've never had good luck with a Ford). They all make good vehicles, and they all have their lemons. It really has reached the point as to taste in styling, and dealer preference. Those who buy American because it's "American" and those who buy foreign because "it's better" are really just being narrow minded, and it is their perogative to do so. Same with tractors. Narrowmindness, in this case, can define a safer path. There's nothing wrong with that. Me, I'm too cheap. I seem to always take the path of greatest potential value. A gamble that sometimes pays off, and other times does not.

 

[Tractor Rep]

Hey,,, both of my trucks are American!

But they are also a 1977 crew dually 1 ton Flat Bed and a 1979 Suburban SB400w/TH350. Both are easy to work on, cheap for parts, The 77 can pull darn near anything.. and it has 682,000 miles 1 chassis, 2nd engine. But I do only get 11 miles to the gallon flat... hmmm, my 2006 Duramax w/ Allison work truck get's 17.5. So in 29 years they only improved mileage by 6.5 MPG,,,,, and the old truck actually pulls a little better. (B series 396 w/ Edelbrock 750, needled and jetted to take high ethanol fuels) Edelbrock Performer Manifold, TH400 with Purple HO converter, my own hand made headers Hooker Competitor cans and custom Dan Fast pipes. Other then that she's stock.


Wish we could buy American again, but with 682,ooo miles we all know we'd be out of jobs with good equipment like that!