Current Leak Battery Drain

[MSU_Keith]

Over the weekend I was running my CK30HST, turned it off and left the keys in the ignition to do some work off the tractor. I think the key was in the off position but it could have been in 'accessory' position. About an hour later I go to start it back up and it won't turn over - dashboard lights up but not enough juice. My first thought is battery is going bad so I checked it with a meter and it reads 12.7V. I still suspect the battery so I pull it out and haul it to the local auto parts store and they throw it on the tester and it reads good for current rating (750 CCA) but we did not test each cell with hydrometer.

Took it back to the tractor and jumpered out the hot side with a meter and it reads 1.4 amps without keys in the ignition. I thought this looked like a short of some kind so I start pulling relays one by one. I went through the two on the firewall and the two by the battery and the preaheat controller with the reading still at 1.4 amps. I then started pulling fuses one by one but it got too dark to finish. Note: the tractor will start with a jump and run with no issues including bright headlights. Other things I checked were the main wire harness connections, the connections to the alternator and the clutch safety switch (before I suspected electrical).

So my questions are:
1. Is this current draw normal with no keys in? I am beginning to second guess myself on this one - maybe for a memory chip or hour meter?

2. I still suspect the battery but do not want to spend $ one a new one just to have the problem be something else. Any better way to check the battery? I don't exactly trust the tester at the parts store - it seemed to easy.

3. My next thought is the ignition switch - I tend to bump it with my knee all the time, enough to mangle the key. Anybody have an ignition switch go out?

4. Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance, Keith

 

[albmn10]

Hello Keith, Your battery sounds ok, did you test the battery with the tractor running? Should be around 14- 15 volts.. You removed the hot wire from the battery and put your meter on amps in series with the battery and the disconnected terminal and read 1.4 amps. That sounds like a short.. Id finish checking the fuses going to the fuse block removing the fuses one by one with the meter in series , that should isolate the wire that has the ground. I have heard of some folks having bad ignition switches, so that may be a good place to look as well. ... Good luck

 

[kraftykeltic]

Remove red wire from alternator and check for current drain. A bad diode in the alternator will allow charging when tractor is running and then will just as quickly drain the battery.

 

[TractorLegend]

I had a bad ignition switch on my CK30HST---check with a test light at the small starter wire for juice with the key in the start position with clutch pushed in- no light is likely a bad switch.
(Oh, and don't have your body under a tire during this test---you'll likely need a helper)
To answer about draw:
Acceptable draw is .05 mA or less---its a good 12v electrical system rule of thumb.
It's risky checking for amp draw with a DMM set on amps since they're limited to 10 amps and an expensive meter fuse blows past that.
You can however check amp draw with a large 1 ohm resistor like available from Radio Shack
(higher wattage the better, the ones I use are 5 watt- they take some heat unlike the small round ones). You'd take off the neg cable with key off- install the 1 ohm resistor in series between cable and battery. Turn key to on position with all accessories off.
>>>>> Set DMM on volts and put test leads across the temporarily installed resistor then read volts as amps...no more than .050 volts (amps) draw would be good, less is better <<<<
Ohms law makes this work.

I still think your switch is bad, I know they don't like to be spray lubed...never heard of a Kioti developing a draw.
Those small electronic battery testers used nowdays are amazingly accurate---I was skeptical after so many years in this field using carbon pile testers. Many batteries that still start cars are bad by virtue of too much internal resistance that makes an alternator work too hard...ever seen a car need three alternators in a row or burn up alternators prematurely? Likely the battery fried the alternator making it put out near full capacity. That new fangled tester finds those batteries where a carbon pile won't. But in the auto field try selling someone a battery that still starts the car...you'd go broke trying.

 

[MSU_Keith]

Unfortunately I did not get a chance to work on it last night. It looks like I should trust the battery and continue to hunt down the short. So the plan:

- Check battery voltage with engine running
- Continue through the fuse box to try to isolate which circuit is a problem.
- Add the alternator check (thanks for the tip Krafty)
- Once these easy ones are eliminated, I'll move on to the ignition - a brief glance tells me this will be a pita to get to.

TL - Thanks for the tip on the resistor and the 0.05 mA rule - just the info I was looking for to confirm my thought process and quit second guessing myself. I'll add update as soon as I get a chance to give these try.

Thanks, Keith

 

[TractorLegend]

I still think a test light applied to the starter small wire is your easiest best first test....no need chasing draw ghosts if the battery is indeed charged up.
i.e.: headlights work etc...
It will tell you if juice is getting to starter, if not I'd go right to the ign. switch and look---theres been more than one bad one pattern failure wise.
Ign switch just unscrews---you can reach under the plastic dash and hold whole backside while turning chrome dash ring loose w/ pliers, then theres one harness connector that unsnaps (where you could jump B+ to the wire thats the same color as the starter small wire to test your theory.
New switch comes w/ keys, chrome threaded ring and all.

 

[DIRTCUTTER]

Over the weekend I was running my CK30HST, turned it off and left the keys in the ignition to do some work off the tractor. I think the key was in the off position but it could have been in 'accessory' position. About an hour later I go to start it back up and it won't turn over - dashboard lights up but not enough juice. My first thought is battery is going bad so I checked it with a meter and it reads 12.7V. I still suspect the battery so I pull it out and haul it to the local auto parts store and they throw it on the tester and it reads good for current rating (750 CCA) but we did not test each cell with hydrometer.

Took it back to the tractor and jumpered out the hot side with a meter and it reads 1.4 amps without keys in the ignition. I thought this looked like a short of some kind so I start pulling relays one by one. I went through the two on the firewall and the two by the battery and the preaheat controller with the reading still at 1.4 amps. I then started pulling fuses one by one but it got too dark to finish. Note: the tractor will start with a jump and run with no issues including bright headlights. Other things I checked were the main wire harness connections, the connections to the alternator and the clutch safety switch (before I suspected electrical).

So my questions are:
1. Is this current draw normal with no keys in? I am beginning to second guess myself on this one - maybe for a memory chip or hour meter?

2. I still suspect the battery but do not want to spend $ one a new one just to have the problem be something else. Any better way to check the battery? I don't exactly trust the tester at the parts store - it seemed to easy.

3. My next thought is the ignition switch - I tend to bump it with my knee all the time, enough to mangle the key. Anybody have an ignition switch go out?

4. Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance, Keith

I just went to the same exact problem with my ck30 it is the pre heat/glow plug relay, part # C5510-43102. open the hood and look at the fire wall you will see two relays, its the one on the right. EASY to replace, you might have to turn the contection to line up the prongs, it should be under warranty. If you have any questions send me a private email.

 

[TractorLegend]

I'm wondering how with the battery testing good at the parts store and your initial check with a meter showed 12.7 volts how/why we are looking for a draw?? Draws make batteries dead, not 12.7 volts. I must have missed something in the story line.

 

[wallace]

I would also follow the negative wire back to the frame and remove the bolt that holds it to the frame and clean the area and reinstall it and see if that helps.
A bad ground will do funny things.

 

[DIRTCUTTER]

Battery drain, did you get it taking of ?

 

[MSU_Keith]

Finally got a chance to work on it - the winner is ignition switch (maybe). Pulled the switch out of the dash and disconnected it. Reconnected and tried it while it was hanging down from under the dash and it fired right up. Shut it down and reinstalled the switch in the dash and it started again. Now I'm wondering if its the ignition switch itself or the wiring harness behind the dash - last year I found a mouse nest on top of the gas tank, haven't seen any sign since I destroyed the nest and baited the storage location. Maybe they moved to a cozy place behind the steering column cover and shorted something out that I 'unshorted' just by moving the wires around.

I'll give another update as soon when I get a chance to pull the cover.

 

[DIRTCUTTER]

Finally got a chance to work on it - the winner is ignition switch (maybe). Pulled the switch out of the dash and disconnected it. Reconnected and tried it while it was hanging down from under the dash and it fired right up. Shut it down and reinstalled the switch in the dash and it started again. Now I'm wondering if its the ignition switch itself or the wiring harness behind the dash - last year I found a mouse nest on top of the gas tank, haven't seen any sign since I destroyed the nest and baited the storage location. Maybe they moved to a cozy place behind the steering column cover and shorted something out that I 'unshorted' just by moving the wires around.

I'll give another update as soon when I get a chance to pull the cover.

Did you have to charge the battery to get the tractor to start ?

 

[MSU_Keith]

Nope, same battery. Odd thing is it started when jumped previously - maybe that much more CCA from the jump overcame the short(?). I suspect that I haven't seen the end of this problem yet.

 

[DIRTCUTTER]

Nope, same battery. Odd thing is it started when jumped previously - maybe that much more CCA from the jump overcame the short(?). I suspect that I haven't seen the end of this problem yet.

Am not saying you havent sloved the problem, but . I also went thru the switch, checked the ground, I even bought a new battery. If you battery goes dead in the next couple of days take a look at that glow plug relay. Either way keep posting on how this turns out it is very helpful.

 

[TractorLegend]

shorts to ground blow fuses normally and
draws drain batteries
bad switch most likely---test light on starter small wire will verify, no light illuminated during no crank event would indicate likely bad switch

 

[KevinMcD]

I've been having a similiar problem with my tractor not starting and thought it was a bad relay. I didn't go as far as checking for a short, though. I thought I had checked all the battery connections, ground, starter, etc. I even changed the negative battery teminal connector because I couldn't get a solid connection. Still wouldn't start. I was about to buy a new battery but when I took the pos terminal off there was a tiny bit of corrosion so I cleaned the terminal and connector and tried it again. Tractor started right up, no problem. It was a poor connection all along, even though the connection itself was tight.
Kevin

 

[WileyKioti]

I had a problem with my ignition switch loosing contact as I turned it. It would turn over (sometimes), but not "catch" (start). I fixed it by shooting some contact cleaner in the key hole.

Now if it happens (usually due to rain, or cleaning with the key cover off) I just shoot a little in there, and it takes care of it.

God Bless,
Wiley

CK30HST (150 hrs):BB, Rotary, RFM, Forks