crate engines

[RBManufacturing]

Hi Fellas,
I recently bought a "crate engine" to put in my 1976 postal jeep. The jeep is a little customized toy, but had a 258ci.
6 cylinder, automatic. Like Tim the tool man, it needs more
power. The crate engine is a 302ci. V-8 out of a 90 mustang.
C-4 automatic. Has stubby headers, aluminum intake, and a 650 4 barrel. Stock cam. Now, what exacally is a "crate engine? I know it is usually a short block, but are they bought from a junk yard and re-built and sold, or are they a new short block? Are they american made, or something done overseas? I did not buy it from the manufacturer, so I cannot ask them.
Question 2. Seller says she occasionally fouls the plugs if just driven around town. Is this because it needs a cam to go along with the carb, headers, etc??? He says he changed carb to a new 650 and it still fouls sometimes. And next question, does anyone know approximately how many horse this 302 is pushing with the carb, headers etc? How much would a bigger cam help on horse power, and performance?
Thanks in advance to any and all comments. Rick /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Farmwithjunk]

"Crate engine" is kind of vague. It all depends on where you buy that "crate, as to what it is. Jasper engines are re-manufactured. New engines (from GM, Ford, Dodge, John Deere, AGCO, ect) can be complete, NEW engines. There's "short block" and "long block". Short block usually doesn't include exhaust, fuel delivery system, or various ignition parts. A long block USUALLY does include those items. (I bought a "long block" from Deere once that didn't include the injector pump)

Simply replacing a cam with one that's "bigger" doesn't always make a "big" difference. It CAN, but engines are a balanced system. If the carb or injection system doesn't deliver more fuel/air mixture, a bigger cam might only ALTER the power delivery. (i.e. less low end torque, higher RPM's to get same power, more fuel consumption, less valve train reliability, ect)

Broad generalizations regarding cams don't apply. Every type of engine is different. What works in a small block Chevy might not work in a 4 cylinder Ford, for example. And the term "Performance" is a broad and general term too. Perform better how? More top end horsepower? More low end torque? Better fuel economy? Are you towing a boat? Drag racing?

Cam manufacturers can and will guide you towards the INTENDED GOAL.

 

[RBManufacturing]

My final goal is off the line performance. Not too worried about
top end. This little jeep gets really un-stable above 55-60
mph. These postal jeeps are on a bullet proof frame and
suspension. Has a stock dana 44 rearend. Huge block frame.
Front tube axle, and really beefy suspension. Final product
will be similar to a bucket T. No hood, or front fenders, with
alot of chrome on engine. Thanks for the info. Rick /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[jwstewar]

One thing kind of weird, if it is out of 90 Mustang, why isn't it Fuel Injected? I thought by that time everything was, heck even the '88 little Plymouth Horizon Mom & Dad had was fuel injected.

 

[Nasty135]

RB, Usually a short-block is minus the heads, A long-block includes heads and intake...

As FMJ has said "crate" can be a seasoned rebuilt engine or in some instances be new (fine print) not "as new" but if rebuilt correctly no significant difference from new...

Camshaft selection is a very critical part of your plan for power VS. useage... You say you want more power ,Well that would mean you need a big cam but you won't be using it to its potential in the upper RPM's, So actually you need an RV cam for more torque at low RPM's...

For the deal about fouling plugs in this motor , Either it has the wrong heat range spark plugs or the carb is not functioning properly, ie: Holley bad power valve...or float level...or jetting... If your going to use a holley and plan on hilling climbing "bad idea" once the angle comes into play the float will let in more fuel than it needs and the bowl vents will pour all that extra gas into the motor causing a flooding (drowned) condition... reccomend carter or edelbrock carbs for good performance without the tweaking woes for the inexperienced holley tuners...

When building or hopping up and engine it is almost always better to error on the side of conservative

To your concern about the current HP rating my guess is no more than 230 at the flywheel probably closer to 200 ...

Happy motoring... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Jimbrown]

Wait a minute you did not buy a crate engine you bought a used engine out of some one elses car. You do not know what you got. I would not touch it. Any way for a jeep you do not want off line performance you want low end torque. My gues is my old 91 warangler with a a 4 cyl in it will out crawl that thing after you get it built asumming you can get it to run at all.

 

[JerryG]

Rick,
Something is wrong with what she told you. The last Mustang with a carb was sold in 1985. If is really out of a Fox body Mustang, it will have to be 1983-1985 engine. If it still the smog carb, the smoking could be coming from it. I really don't like that stock carb.

 

[EddieWalker]

I had a 73 CJ5 Jeep at one time. I blew up the original motor and put in a Chevy 350. I didn't go wild on it or anything, just a little above stock. Mild cam, .30 over and 9 to 1 compression. I figured it would be a nice engine for the size of the vehicle and be drivable. Big mistake. I never stoped messing with it. Engine was too powerful for the tansmission. U-Joints couldn't take it either. Clutch wouldn't last and the radiator was large enough, than there was the shroud and fan combination. It never ended.

One thing I learned was to keep it as mild as possible. Stay with factory if possible. Everytime you modify one thing, a dozen other things need to changed as well.

I have an old jeep I'm going to put a Chevy 2.8 V6 into. This time I bought the whole vehicle. An 88 Chevy S-10 off Ebay for $300. It runs good, but the suspention is shot from being lowered and the interior is wasted, plus lots of minor boddy damage all over the place. It's perfect for a doner vehicle because I have all the components for the drive train. I won't modify any of it, just pull it from the blazer and put it into the jeep. I'll have to modify the frame and mounting brackets, but otherwise, it should be a straight swap.

Having all those parts that go with the engine is very important in my opinion. They are designed to work together and I can easily find parts for them.

Your engine sounds like fun, but making it work in your jeep is gonna be a test in patience and cash. If you plan on not getting it right the first dozen times, than you wont be disapointed. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Have fun,
Eddie

 

[RBManufacturing]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the input!!! Let me tell you what I know so far.
I live near K.C. Mo. I drove to Evansville In. To get the motor.
Needed to get away from work more than I needed the motor.
A friend lives near there, so he drove the Mustang before I
bought the motor. It came out of a 69 Mustang, that originally
had a 4 cyl. Owner blew it up and sold it. New guy bought a
crate engine for it to resell the car. I asked what year the
motor was, and he said it is like what came in a 90 Mustang.
Is there a way I can try and locate a block number and
maybe get a better idea of year?????
My application is not as a jeep per say. My jeep is one of the
old square postal jeeps. 2 wheel drive. I sand blasted it,
painted it Bright red, with yellow flames. One of a kind mag
wheels. Instead of spokes for the wheels, it has chrome
flames for spokes. Put a red neon light behind the wheels
and it looks like real flames as the wheels turn. 12 in. wide
street tires. High back bucket seats. Console. 4 disc cd
player. It is a cruise around on the weekend jeep. Not off-
road. Friend said motor and trans were excellent. Owner
sold me the motor and trans and kept the body. Already
bought it. Got a good deal, so not a problem YET.
Again, any way to tell year by number on motor? Thanks, Rick

 

[RobertN]

This is a 2wd postal Jeep. No crawl needed.

For crawl, a straight six, with a granny low 4 or 5 speed, 5:38's, and in the case of the Dana-300 transfer case, the after market low range gear... I grew up around the rocks; suspensions have changed, but gearing remains /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Speaking of 4 cylinders, my Pa had a '42 Willy's MB when I was a kid. Flathead 4 in it. And, 5:38's... Without an over drive, we could do 55mph, but that little flathead was screamin /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif