Could Yanmar Make It The Big Four?

[HayDR]

Yes it is possible that Yanmar can develop a dealer network. Most CUT potential end users know of the JD/Yanmar agreements. There are 130,000 CUTS sold new every year and at least 20,000 Grey Market tractors coming into the USA. The average CUT owner will use their tractor less than 50 hours a year. Take into account top quality CUTS will last 20-30 years and rust out before they wear out. If TBNers will think they will realize which dealers need the Yanmar tractors in their marketing mix. JD has good sales numbers but realize Kubota's sales are almost double of that of JD's CUT's. There is some good competition going on for 3-6 and Yanmar likely could be there quickly.

 

[slowrev]

Soundguy,
Do you suppose that after the JD/Yanmar agreement goes away that people will be able to get greymarket Yanmar parts thru Yanmar legally ?

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Deere's new 4x20's (which replaced the large chassis 4x10's) have Deere engines. The 3x20's (midchassis) are due soon, and the specs LOOK like they will also use Deere engines. All sport a HUGE jump in HP, at much lower rpm's, BTW...

I think Yanmar would do really well, not only selling CUTs through their existing industrial dealers, but making that equipment available to more dealers, who will want to offer their CUTs. I would have loved to see their newest engines in Deere's equipment.

strange things happen. We are just seeing our first Daimler diesels in Chrysler products. (Liberty, Sprinter and did i hear PT?) It seems crazy that the worlds largest diesel manufacturer would buy engines from another supplier for their trucks. Don't worry, they will keep those folks at Cummins busy for a while....

 

[slowrev]

Yeah for more hp and lower RPM's.

Ben

 

[jd2210]

To a certain degree I think we may see a bit of the "Bradley-McMicheal factor" happen with the CUT market. That being the sudden growth and then slowly merger after merger to go back to status quo.

Examples?

Snowmachines at one time were manufactured by 34 manufacturers. Alouette, AMF, Boa Ski, Evinrude, Massey Fergusen, Scorpion, Solo, Hirth etc aren't doing so hot with market share these days. For a number of years they were even down to 4 (AC,Ski-doo, Polaris, Yamaha) and now they are slowly growing again.

The Class 9 truck industry consists of Paccar (Pete and Kenny
), Daimler (Freightliner, Sterling, Western Star), International, and Volvo (volvo and Mack). But when our company first started up we had a heck of a lot more selection than that. Hendrickson, Dodge and GMC were even in on it for a while.

It just seems that when a market explodes in sales (like CUT's are doing right now) that everybody wants in on it. I'm not saying that 15 years from now there will only be 4 or 5 companies but I do think we will see less.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Do you suppose that after the JD/Yanmar agreement goes away that people will be able to get greymarket Yanmar parts thru Yanmar legally )</font>

I doubt it. In fact.. I would guess that it would even be harder.. and more 'sneaking' would have to happen.

I don't think it is the jd/yanmar agreement that curtails the used parts issue. I think it is more that those parts are for unsuported non-domestic units that don't meet the safety requirements of the domestic models... probably a good bit of it is lawsuit liability issue. After all.. if they provide parts for their no-rops no pto shield machines.. someone dies.. they might get sued .. I know we have older domestics here that are in the same bucket.. but I think the jap companies are a tad hesitant about american 'drop of a hat' big$ lawsuit culture we are developing.

Soundguy

 

[slowrev]

Thanks Soundguy,
I was just curious as to why one cannot get parts for the grey tractors. I am not interested in a grey tractor, unless maybe an old Ford /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I just believe that the SE Asia re conditioned tractors are pretty much worn out before they are "reconditioned" and sold here. Would take one for free, but that is about it.
Ben

 

[Soundguy]

The grey yanmar are just laike any other used tractor.. ya gott look hard and be your own detective.

If it is low hours and 'rebuilt' that should be a flag.. Why should a low hour unit need rebuilding unless it had the snot worked out of it and no maintenance.

Rtv extruded out of every casting mating surface also bears inspection.. painted hoses and belts does to.. says 'auction' paint job on it.

There are many good dealers out there that support their product.. just gotta keep your whits about you.

Soundguy

 

[Calpyro]

The dealer that Yanmar has been visiting is Rainbow Ag. http://www.rainbowag.com/html/equipment.html
Yanmar, Rainbow Ag, and a large vineyard management company in the Napa Valley http://www.wvmgmt.com/ have been working together to develop a crawler vineyard tractor. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Board/yanmar/Number/396471/page/0/view//sb/5/o/all/fpart/all/vc/1 The owner of Rainbow Ag, is giddy about the possibility of selling Yanmar tractors. As you can see from his website he is a JD dealer. I presume tat he will continue selling green when he begins selling the new Yanmar tractors. If other dealers throughout the US are like Rainbow, they will sell several makes of tractors. If this is the case, many dealerships will become Yanmar dealers to block other large dealerships from taking the market share.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> If this is the case, many dealerships will become Yanmar dealers to block other large dealerships from taking the market share. </font>

The presumption is that Yanmar will make a great tractor, which is probably a safe presumption. However, money being what it is to so many people, brands like Mahindra and Branson seem to be growing although their numbers are still pretty small. I guess my observation is, why a dealer snap up Yanmar instead of one of the brands that is already here? Within 8 miles of my house I have a major Kubota/Case/Cub dealer, a JD dealer and a New Holland/Branson dealer. If the JD dealer picks up Yanmar that will give him another premium brand, but I am not sure that one more choice will dramatically alter the market. Over time I think it may, if Yanmar is price competitive. But the Korean machines seem to be very competitive in their pricing (although Kioti seems to be priced very close to the major brands and has an Oct 1 price increase). Will Yanmar be able to compete on price with Mahindra and still offer all the features consumers want? Kioti does that very well, but is losing its price advantage quickly. Currently no "minor" brand seems to have enough dealerships to really be a national competitor to the "big 3" and that will the first challenge Yanmar has, second will be the pricing issue.

 

[WilliamBos]

Question????? Dont forget about the number 1 tractor i the world MF!! When you talk about 1,2,3,4,5,6, they cannot be excluded!! My 2 cents...................

JD ending its association with Yanmar? Has this been confirmed!!

If Yanmar can build the rest of the CUT like the engines........The more the merrier!!

Take care

Will

 

[RoyJackson]

I really think Yanmar could become one of the biggies...they've been building CUTs for John Deere for at least 15 years.

Now, they need to take a lesson from the Japanese automotive manufacturers...have the design work done in the USA.

Not to offend anyone, but every Yanmar I've seen looks rinky-dink. I know they can build a solid tractor, but they just need a robust appearence...like the Deere x70, x90 series.

Then, I think they'd sell like it;s going outta style!

 

[DavesTractor]

Roy,

Good point on the design issue. Of course the newer F series Yanmars have come a long ways in that regard from the older 2-cylinder 2-wheel-drive YM's.

Yanmar has been affiliated with John Deere for about 30 years now. I'd be curious if they really are going to go separate ways, or if this is just a rumor. Anybody know?

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I guess my observation is, why a dealer snap up Yanmar instead of one of the brands that is already here.............Will Yanmar be able to compete on price with Mahindra and still offer all the features consumers want )</font>

Two things going for yanmar are: 1St. it used to be a domestic unit.. so there is already a small foothold here that never left.. as the domestic units still are supported by the parts network . 2ND The yanmar grey unit following is quite large.. probably larger than any of the other grey units. This shows decent brand loyality, and familiarity. Yanmar/japaneese craftsmanship is pretty much a given ( look at other scut/cut engines by the big 3 ).

As for options vs price. I see lots of people buying used yanmars that are similar in price to new economy brands... that says that someone is willing to pay for a percieved 'better' tractor.. even if it is older and lacks some of the dealer support. Kind of a similar argument with the jinma chineese tractors. They are a domestic sales product.. have a growing parts support and name recognition due to the big suppliers like northern tools... yet lots of people will still purchase a used grey yanmar...

like others.. just my .02$

Soundguy

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Soundguy, I tend to agree with much of what you've written, but looking around TBN I also think there are a lot of buyers out there who gravitate to the cheapest price. The Century, Branson, Kioti, Mahindra and Jinmas areas on TBN all have some very vocal advocates who say that my brand is just as good as the big 3 brands but it cost less. And I am not argueing that point, but they chose on price. It seems to me that Yanmar, being a Japanese company, will suffer from the higher material costs and higher labor rates that many Japanese companies suffer from. They can beat those costs by going offshore and having their tractors assembled here or in Mexico or even Korea, but I suspect that they won't want to do that if they have the capacity in Japan because they will no longer be producing some of the JD products. So I wonder how price competitive they will be??? JD and NH both assemble their CUTs here for a reason, to save money. Will Yanmar be able to do that while they try to enter the market?

Dave, as for the question about JD & Yanmar. There have been news articles detailing their separation as business partners. It is not an all at once cut off, but more a phasing out of the partnership over a period of time. I would venture to say the 2 brands will remain friendly for a long period of time, if for no other reason than parts support!!!

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( there are a lot of buyers out there who gravitate to the cheapest price. The Century, Branson, Kioti, Mahindra and Jinmas areas on TBN all have some very vocal advocates who say that my brand is just as good as the big 3 brands but it cost less. )</font>

Oh sure.. I didn't mean to imply that no one was looking for an inexpensive tractor. Heck... it really makes you think about a 3400$ tractor inthe 20hp range.

That said.. I don't think the jinma tractors can claim to be just as good as the big three.. lets be reasonable.. just looking at thier threads.. as soon as you get your jinma.. the going recomendations are to change the nuts and bolts.. new battery.. drain all fluids... etc.. etc.. etc..

When my NH shows up from the dealr.. I've paid at least twice as much.. but also don't have to do any of that other stuff. This makes a distinction for price vs fit/finish/quality. For those that demand the fit/finish/quality.. a big 3 dealer is the way to go.

For those not scared to put a few hours work and getting greasy on their brand new tractor, and saving a bundle of cash.. an economy brand is the way to go...

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Will Yanmar be able to do that while they try to enter the market )</font>

Well.. they've done it once...who knows. I also agree.. i think they will try to keep manufacturing centralized.

Soundguy

 

[JeffRey30747]

Will Yanmar assemble tractors in the US if the deem it to be a wise business decision?

I say yes. It is not as big of a change as it may sound. There is already a Yanmar engine facility not far from me in Adairsville, GA. It does not appear that it would be difficult for this facility to expand and allow even more assembly operations, if that was what they wanted to do. BTW, this is on I-75 just a little south of Mahindra's new facility in Calhoun, GA.

Jeff