control for a hydraulic solenoid

[aerojunkie]

I have googled all I can think of but cant find an answer to this. I have asked in another forum so please forgive me for repeating it, just thought this forum would the better place for it.

Can a winch motor switch like this?

12 VDC WINCH MOTOR CONTROL PENDANT | Power Transfer Switches | Switches | Electrical | www.surpluscenter.com

Control a hydraulic solenoid like this?

12 VDC 21 GPM ARGO RPE3-6 DA HYDRAULIC DO3 SOLENOID VALVE | Solenoid Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

 

[BukitCase]

No - that switch is designed to either NOT connect the battery to the winch, or CONNECT it in ONE polarity (wind) or the REVERSE polarity (UNwind) - depending on whether you push one button, the other one, or NONE.

The valve you linked is "open center", meaning it will pass thru (effectively doing nothing) until you energise ONE of the TWO coils, in which case (say) the "B" port will pressurize whatever you're running and the "A" port will return to tank - energising the OTHER, "A" port (by energising the OTHER solenoid) will pressurize that side of whatever you're driving with the solenoid valve, and the "B" port will allow the OTHER side of what you're driving to "vent" to Tank.

That valve ALSO needs a Sub Base in order to have ANY connections that'll accept normal hydraulic connectors.

Sooo, you would either need TWO of those switches, one for each FLOW direction in that solenoid, or a different switch (SPDT with Center OFF),or a different valve - if you don't need quite as much flow, one of these

12/24 Volt DC 13.2 GPM SAE 8 Solenoid Operated Double Selector Valve | Featured Items | www.surpluscenter.com

can use a single pole switch, either momentary, spring loaded or on/off, depending on what you want the valve to do. That particular valve I linked can run TWO different devices from ONE hydraulic source - with NO solenoid current, the pair of ports on ONE side of the valve are connected to the pair on the OTHER side (so you can STACK more than one if necessary to run THREE or more devices with ONE source) - when the solenoid is energized, the IN ports switch from the OUT-1 ports (opposite side) to the OUT-2 ports (located on TOP ) -

Those single solenoid selector valves can be used to get multiple remotes from a single remote, or used in the curl circuit of the FEL so you can run a grapple, etc, with minimal mods to the plumbing... Steve

BTW, NEITHER of those valves will allow "proportional" control by themselves, they're either full ON or CLOSED - but feeding them from a remote or fel control valve will allow whichever flow path is "ON" to be proportionately controlled by the control valve that FEEDS them...

 

[aerojunkie]

No - that switch is designed to either NOT connect the battery to the winch, or CONNECT it in ONE polarity (wind) or the REVERSE polarity (UNwind) - depending on whether you push one button, the other one, or NONE.

The valve you linked is "open center", meaning it will pass thru (effectively doing nothing) until you energise ONE of the TWO coils, in which case (say) the "B" port will pressurize whatever you're running and the "A" port will return to tank - energising the OTHER, "A" port (by energising the OTHER solenoid) will pressurize that side of whatever you're driving with the solenoid valve, and the "B" port will allow the OTHER side of what you're driving to "vent" to Tank.

That valve ALSO needs a Sub Base in order to have ANY connections that'll accept normal hydraulic connectors.

Sooo, you would either need TWO of those switches, one for each FLOW direction in that solenoid, or a different switch (SPDT with Center OFF),or a different valve - if you don't need quite as much flow, one of these

12/24 Volt DC 13.2 GPM SAE 8 Solenoid Operated Double Selector Valve | Featured Items | www.surpluscenter.com

can use a single pole switch, either momentary, spring loaded or on/off, depending on what you want the valve to do. That particular valve I linked can run TWO different devices from ONE hydraulic source - with NO solenoid current, the pair of ports on ONE side of the valve are connected to the pair on the OTHER side (so you can STACK more than one if necessary to run THREE or more devices with ONE source) - when the solenoid is energized, the IN ports switch from the OUT-1 ports (opposite side) to the OUT-2 ports (located on TOP ) -

Those single solenoid selector valves can be used to get multiple remotes from a single remote, or used in the curl circuit of the FEL so you can run a grapple, etc, with minimal mods to the plumbing... Steve

BTW, NEITHER of those valves will allow "proportional" control by themselves, they're either full ON or CLOSED - but feeding them from a remote or fel control valve will allow whichever flow path is "ON" to be proportionately controlled by the control valve that FEEDS them...

Thank you for the help BukitCase, I should have given a little bit more information. What I am after is making my own 3rd function kit and was going to use that switch and valve with the appropriate subplate, hoses, fittings, etc and have a true 3rd function setup instead of the diverter valve. Here is the thread that I started on that.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/383744-trying-construct-3rd-function.html

Only reason for going for that particular valve I referenced over one like listed below is it was cleaner without the hirschmann connectors mounted on top.

12 VDC 1 GPM OC DA SOLENOID VALVE | Solenoid Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

It was suggested to use an atv winch switch, I just liked the one I asked about because I thought it would clamp to the loader control lever easier.

 

[BukitCase]

I read thru your whole thread, and not one mention of WHAT you want to control with a true 3rd function - which is why I wrote that LAST paragraph -

"BTW, NEITHER of those valves will allow "proportional" control by themselves, they're either full ON or CLOSED - but feeding them from a remote or fel control valve will allow whichever flow path is "ON" to be proportionately controlled by the control valve that FEEDS them..."

Personally I've yet to understand the value of a "true" 3rd function, since the vast majority of "less than 100 horsepower" tractors use OPEN center hydraulics and can pretty much ONLY use ONE hydraulic function at a time - nearly everything I've found I wanna do would benefit from proportional control, which CAN be had with electrically controlled valves, if you have a butt-load of $$$$ - which most of us (including you) don't wanna spend.

Maybe I'm just not fully understanding what is referred to here as "true 3rd function" - can somebody please enlighten me, or point me to the answer? Thanks... Steve

 

[CincyFlyer]

... Maybe I'm just not fully understanding what is referred to here as "true 3rd function" - can somebody please enlighten me, or point me to the answer? Thanks... Steve

As used here, it merely means "no diverter valve", and generally the add-on valve has an electric solenoid, and not proportional. Unless you go with a valve assembly with "regen" you will either have your joystick or your third function. I'm going with a new valve that has a grapple spool; I wish someone would build a mess of these in a smaller size, it would end up being cheaper and easier than the "add-on"!

 

[aerojunkie]

I read thru your whole thread, and not one mention of WHAT you want to control with a true 3rd function - which is why I wrote that LAST paragraph -

"BTW, NEITHER of those valves will allow "proportional" control by themselves, they're either full ON or CLOSED - but feeding them from a remote or fel control valve will allow whichever flow path is "ON" to be proportionately controlled by the control valve that FEEDS them..."

Personally I've yet to understand the value of a "true" 3rd function, since the vast majority of "less than 100 horsepower" tractors use OPEN center hydraulics and can pretty much ONLY use ONE hydraulic function at a time - nearly everything I've found I wanna do would benefit from proportional control, which CAN be had with electrically controlled valves, if you have a butt-load of $$$$ - which most of us (including you) don't wanna spend.

Maybe I'm just not fully understanding what is referred to here as "true 3rd function" - can somebody please enlighten me, or point me to the answer? Thanks... Steve

Agreed it was never mentioned, Im looking to control a grapple that I bought recently. I have seen the true 3rd function referenced several times as a system without a diverter valve, but adding another separate hydraulic line, so thats what I thought was the best to call it. I have looked at the diverter setup and Im not 100% against one at all, and I do use one function at a time but just seems it would be awkward to me. To be fair I havent used either one but just using my loader while trying to imagine how each would work the 3rd function without a diverter seemed better for me.

Also agree that I dont want to spend anymore than I have to, this is why I have been trying to assemble a kit myself. So far I can get the whole system for less than half what pre made kit with all the hoses included would cost and about $200 less than a partial kit that I would still have to buy hoses for.

 

[aerojunkie]

As used here, it merely means "no diverter valve", and generally the add-on valve has an electric solenoid, and not proportional. Unless you go with a valve assembly with "regen" you will either have your joystick or your third function. I'm going with a new valve that has a grapple spool; I wish someone would build a mess of these in a smaller size, it would end up being cheaper and easier than the "add-on"!

You are correct Cincy, thank you for helping to clarify. I dont really know what else to call it besides true third function. I really looked hard at the valve you are using and almost ordered one a few times but once I started figuring out where to get some parts and how this all worked I went another way. Im still a bit skeptical on adding more electronics (big reason I liked the valve you have) to a tractor but they seem to hold up better than I thought they would.

 

[jenkinsph]

I read thru your whole thread, and not one mention of WHAT you want to control with a true 3rd function - which is why I wrote that LAST paragraph -

"BTW, NEITHER of those valves will allow "proportional" control by themselves, they're either full ON or CLOSED - but feeding them from a remote or fel control valve will allow whichever flow path is "ON" to be proportionately controlled by the control valve that FEEDS them..."

Personally I've yet to understand the value of a "true" 3rd function, since the vast majority of "less than 100 horsepower" tractors use OPEN center hydraulics and can pretty much ONLY use ONE hydraulic function at a time - nearly everything I've found I wanna do would benefit from proportional control, which CAN be had with electrically controlled valves, if you have a butt-load of $$$$ - which most of us (including you) don't wanna spend.

Maybe I'm just not fully understanding what is referred to here as "true 3rd function" - can somebody please enlighten me, or point me to the answer? Thanks... Steve

I would agree that to operate a grapple it would make a lot more sense to use a diverter and existing fel valve. I bought a dual spool proportional valve last fall for a project I am working on and had to have it. Proportional valves are not cheap, mine was about $1800 for the dual valve and solenoids. You would still need the control circuit/electronics to control the solenoids too.

 

[BukitCase]

OK, that's sorta what I thought - I'm also adding a grapple, but will eventually want more controls for articulating my Samurai sickle cutter without getting off the seat - it's all going on my 580B, and I'm planning for 2 lower flow circuits (run off a Scorpion controls handle (3 circuit) that'll be attached to the original joystick) - there will also be a full-flow circuit run off a flow-controlled splitter, with 3/4" hard tube lines - the Samurai won't need that much, but a hydraulic motor driving my 6 foot flail on the loader arms probably will (another "later" project)

The old case is mostly 1" or 3/4", so it's been a real chore figuring out how to use low-flow stuff WITHOUT choking the loader or hoe.

My loader, being industrial, uses a 6"x8" rectangular tube as the crossbar between loader arms - makes a good place to mount diverters (word of caution - it DOES make a difference WHICH side ports on diverters goes where, and these pics are of "BEFORE smartness kicked in" - so I STILL need to re-do what's in the pics but REVERSED...)

More proof that the saying, "Life is the crap that happens to you while you're busy making plans"... Steve

 

[aerojunkie]

Got a call from my dealer today, grapple just arrived. So now I gotta get my 3rd function going. Still looking for switches........any suggestions beyond the scorpion or wr long? Might even bite the bullet and buy a partial kit just to take care of the electrical part.

Construction Attachments Dedicated Third Function Hydraulic Valve Kit, Less Hoses, Up To 14 GPM